March 16, 2009 8:35 AM
Sam wrote:
How are ya'll doing at 'setting aside a sum of money' on the first day (Sunday) of the week? I do 'okay', in that I DO give at church on Sundays, but not a complete tithe (ten percent). I think it is a heart issue, as well as one of possibly greed coupled with wanting to 'save for the future'...but we all know the story about the overfilling barns story. I DO feel it important that a 'regular' schedule of giving is established, even if it is two mites, at least it is saying SOMETHING to God that we appreciate all He has done for us. I'm not at the 10% level, for the reasons I mentioned above, but also trust. I've seen, and see, churches misuse tithes and donations for year after year, and I hate to see that. If I knew preachers were paid just enough to survive (like a lot of the 'parishoners'), then I might see it a bit differently. But when I see them in Mercedes, BMWs, fine clothes et. al., I wonder. Maybe it's just me, but I think that the preponderance of the money should go to helping the poor. A church building is fine, but most church 'buildings' are MANSIONS, and although THE TEMPLE was once built (well, at least TWICE built), there is no need to replicate that activity today as WE are the Temple for God. Warehouse style buildings, without fancy stained-glass windows and large foyers and fancy seating and electronic message boards and audiovisual displays, are probably more appropriate for church meeting places. If that was the norm, a whole lot more poor and sick people would/could receive a WHOLE LOT more from church funds.
March 16, 2009 2:31 PM
Dustin wrote:
hmmm, wow, ok, aahhh, nope, oh okay, naaa, wait, hold up, lets back up a second.
Whats wrong with this picture?
'NIV' "2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."
'NKJV' 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
So when did 'Something' turn in to 'Money'?
So in setting aside money you can fund the church, evangelists, activities, campus, childs ministries, etc., and so on. Ok i get it. But wait.
Set aside something?
Time, Money, FRIENDSHIP, Counselling, Special Abilities, Fellowship, Bible Studies, ........SOMETHING!!!!
I checked the definition of the word something and didnt find that it was money.
Yet another example that the bible and the text as it ages continues to change. Is it true that when a writter or re-writter in the bibles case, is used, are they not supposed to instill there beliefs into what they write? Because in my eyes there is a BIG difference between 'Money' and 'Something'. Makes my wonder how many parts of this Epistle is actually Paul's writtings.
Sam, Thank you for inviting us to your party. We had a lot of fun and it was great to get a night out from our kids. Reply to this
March 16, 2009 3:21 PM
Sam wrote:
Hmmmm......'something' can translate to anything, certainly. But look at what Paul is saying. He wants people to set aside 'time' so there won't have to be any collections when he comes? He wants people to set aside 'friendship' when he comes so collections won't have to be made? He wants people to set aside 'counselling' so that collections won't be necessary when he comes? Nope...it is 100% obvious he is talking about collecting MONEY. And why? To be used by the church for various missions. Note that in verse 3 Paul says: "And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem." (KJV), or if you prefer, "When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem;" (NAS. Paul is definitely talking about 'gifts' in the form of money to be used by the church in Jerusalem. This is IN ADDITION TO the 'tithing tradition' of the religious organizations sprung out of the Old Testament. Tithing, translated at 10%...but the OT refers to Tithing AND Gifts.....MORE than 10%. It was 'law' back then....OH, but wait, Jesus abolished the law....no, He did not. He FULFILLED it...and with that fulfullment made it even 'harder'???? to give to the church to support their many missions. By harder, I mean, it is now not a law, that is a requirement, but a 'love induced reaction'....that is, we SHOULD give (reread Acts 2:44). Ten percent? I don't know...but I DO know we should be giving MONEY to those who need it. Is the church the 'best' way to do this? Again, I don't know....but it's a start. If you give a large amount of your income to organizations who take care of the poor, the widows, the sick and lame, then probably your heart is in the right place. If you give large amounts of your money to the church for them to use for worthwhile causes, then probably your heart is in the right place. HOWEVER, if you DON'T give much, maybe it ain't. (Like I said above..I don't "tithe", but I give weekly as well as donate to other charities. Donating your time and efforts is also one way to 'give' when you don't have any money, but sometimes people use that as an excuse because their heart is not quite in the right place. We should, as Bill Cosby would have said, 'wanna' give, simply based upon what we have been given. In Actsm Corneliius was praised by God because of his gifts to the poor. And check out the place in Acts where brothers pooled their money and gave it to those who needed it. They did this by giving it to the church elders (Ch 11). Check out 2nd Cor 8 and 9 about giving (money). No...most certainly Paul WAS referring to money. All those other 'somethings' certainly are great to do, and not just saved up for Sunday either, but we should also want to do them all the time. Am a the pot calling someone black? Am I a hypocrite? Am I saying to do things I don't? No. I know MY shortcomings in this area. How about ya'll? Reply to this
March 16, 2009 4:13 PM
Dustin wrote:
unfortunatly i went and bought a stupid car with a stupid high payment on stupid bad credit(did you get that it was stupid yet)and now my wife is unemployed and i have limited funds. So this stupid payment eats up my finances. So i cant 'Give Money'the way i want to, but i can give 'something'.
How are ya'll doing at 'setting aside a sum of money' on the first day (Sunday) of the week? I do 'okay', in that I DO give at church on Sundays, but not a complete tithe (ten percent). I think it is a heart issue, as well as one of possibly greed coupled with wanting to 'save for the future'...but we all know the story about the overfilling barns story.
I DO feel it important that a 'regular' schedule of giving is established, even if it is two mites, at least it is saying SOMETHING to God that we appreciate all He has done for us. I'm not at the 10% level, for the reasons I mentioned above, but also trust. I've seen, and see, churches misuse tithes and donations for year after year, and I hate to see that. If I knew preachers were paid just enough to survive (like a lot of the 'parishoners'), then I might see it a bit differently. But when I see them in Mercedes, BMWs, fine clothes et. al., I wonder. Maybe it's just me, but I think that the preponderance of the money should go to helping the poor. A church building is fine, but most church 'buildings' are MANSIONS, and although THE TEMPLE was once built (well, at least TWICE built), there is no need to replicate that activity today as WE are the Temple for God. Warehouse style buildings, without fancy stained-glass windows and large foyers and fancy seating and electronic message boards and audiovisual displays, are probably more appropriate for church meeting places. If that was the norm, a whole lot more poor and sick people would/could receive a WHOLE LOT more from church funds.
Comments? Your feelings?
Reply to this
hmmm, wow, ok, aahhh, nope, oh okay, naaa, wait, hold up, lets back up a second.
Whats wrong with this picture?
'NIV'
"2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."
'NKJV'
2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
So when did 'Something' turn in to 'Money'?
So in setting aside money you can fund the church, evangelists, activities, campus, childs ministries, etc., and so on. Ok i get it. But wait.
Set aside something?
Time, Money, FRIENDSHIP, Counselling, Special Abilities, Fellowship, Bible Studies, ........SOMETHING!!!!
I checked the definition of the word something and didnt find that it was money.
Yet another example that the bible and the text as it ages continues to change.
Is it true that when a writter or re-writter in the bibles case, is used, are they not supposed to instill there beliefs into what they write? Because in my eyes there is a BIG difference between 'Money' and 'Something'. Makes my wonder how many parts of this Epistle is actually Paul's writtings.
Sam, Thank you for inviting us to your party. We had a lot of fun and it was great to get a night out from our kids.
Reply to this
Hmmmm......'something' can translate to anything, certainly. But look at what Paul is saying. He wants people to set aside 'time' so there won't have to be any collections when he comes? He wants people to set aside 'friendship' when he comes so collections won't have to be made? He wants people to set aside 'counselling' so that collections won't be necessary when he comes? Nope...it is 100% obvious he is talking about collecting MONEY. And why? To be used by the church for various missions. Note that in verse 3 Paul says: "And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem." (KJV), or if you prefer, "When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem;" (NAS
HOWEVER, if you DON'T give much, maybe it ain't. (Like I said above..I don't "tithe", but I give weekly as well as donate to other charities. Donating your time and efforts is also one way to 'give' when you don't have any money, but sometimes people use that as an excuse because their heart is not quite in the right place. We should, as Bill Cosby would have said, 'wanna' give, simply based upon what we have been given.
In Actsm Corneliius was praised by God because of his gifts to the poor. And check out the place in Acts where brothers pooled their money and gave it to those who needed it. They did this by giving it to the church elders (Ch 11). Check out 2nd Cor 8 and 9 about giving (money).
No...most certainly Paul WAS referring to money. All those other 'somethings' certainly are great to do, and not just saved up for Sunday either, but we should also want to do them all the time.
Am a the pot calling someone black? Am I a hypocrite? Am I saying to do things I don't? No. I know MY shortcomings in this area. How about ya'll?
Reply to this
unfortunatly i went and bought a stupid car with a stupid high payment on stupid bad credit(did you get that it was stupid yet)and now my wife is unemployed and i have limited funds. So this stupid payment eats up my finances. So i cant 'Give Money'the way i want to, but i can give 'something'.
Ok see ya'll tomorrow.
Reply to this
I know what ya mean.....and, remember, people gave 'what they could', not what they couldn't!!!!!
Mac
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