February 27, 2009 6:18 AM
Sam wrote:
Okay.....now, is Pilate being a 'good guy' for once? When the chief priests and Pharisees asked that the tomb into which Jesus was placed be secured, Pilate ordered ONE guard be placed there. ONE guard? No backup? No one to keep him awake? MAYBE, just maybe, Pilate was attempting to redeem himself just a tiny bit instead of ordering a platoon of men to guard this tomb. Telling the pharisees to take one guard and 'make the tomb as secure as you can' could be construed that Pilate DID think that he was helping Jesus' followers by giving them an opportunity of sorts to do just what the Pharisees feared most at this time.
Just a thought.
It was obvious, however, that Pilate definitely didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, otherwise he might have made SURE this tomb was COMPLETELY sealed (more than just putting 'a seal on the stone') just to see if He would rise as Jesus said He would.
I 'dug deep', or hypothesized today, because this sad part of history has been told so many times it become very commonplace. I don't want this event, and the one to follow, become commonplace and boring...hence, I strived to find ANYTHING new to discuss.
Comments?
See most of you tomorrow night for a Birthday Party!!!! Reply to this
I am not sure if guard is singular - I believe it is plural - like the concept of a troop, company, batallion, etc. In chapter 28, when the angel comes, the guards (plural) were scared out of the minds. Reply to this
I LOVE being surrounded by Bible scholars! Helps me learn. Reply to this
February 27, 2009 9:54 AM
Dustin wrote:
OK, In Matthew it says that judas hanged(is that proper english? should it be hung? sorry part of one of my talents)himself but in acts 1:18-19 it says something different. Acts says "and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out" and that Judas purchased the field called 'Akel Dama' (field of blood). Yet in Matthew it says the Chief Priests bought the field. I understand different authors but can anyone explain the big differences? Reply to this
February 27, 2009 10:40 AM
Sam wrote:
1 - 'hanged' is fine. Preferred is 'hung', but either is proper English.
2 - I guess he fell headlong from the limb of the tree????????? Everyone, including I, ask this same question. Which was correct? No one knows...each make up their own interpretation. Have you looked at the KJV, NASB, original Greek or Hebrew at the various passages and see what they say, rather than just one version like the NIV. If you did, did you find anything different among them? I am sure you did (or will if you'll take my challenge and go to bible.cc and compare the many translations). Why is that? Well, let me answer...MAN wrote the Bible. MAN translated what MAN wrote. More than one MAN recorded what HE had heard/seen of any one given event. OF COURSE you are going to have contradictions all the time.
Now, some will tell you that the Word Of God, that is, YOUR BIBLE, is flawless because it is from God. I would tend to disagree (sorry Rik). I see several of these 'inconsistencies' throughout the 'gospels'. I also know that what you are reading today is not what was originally penned by the NT authors in all cases. Different rewrites of these books have been prevelant over the centuries, with MAN adding to /subtracting from what was originally written.
Many people will try to explain the differences, but in my mind, the only true explanation is that MAN (fallable MAN) has altered the original words written down, OR, the original words written down, if they exist as we read them today, WAS what was remembered by each different author.
BUT, the main point is this---no matter the discrepancies on 'trivial' matters like this, the gospel, the truth about salvation IS included in the Bible, and if read carefully, ALL authors agree to what is required for salvation, even though some leave some stuff out. James says works is required. Paul says you're saved by grace. Again, seeminly conflicting, but if we are do understand really what works are, and their ROLE in salvation, and what grace truly is, you'll see that they are in agreement. Reply to this
February 27, 2009 12:07 PM
Dustin wrote:
UH OH, You said he hung himself from a tree. I have'nt found that tree listing in the bible yet. Could you tell me were to verify that? Or did you just go off of what Man said? he he anyway.
I was confused more about the field of blood/potter field.
Who bought it? Was it the high priests that decided that the money was blood money and it belonged to Judas so they declared the purchase in Judas's name, or did the High Priest just buy it? I really dont know im just tossing around ideas. Reply to this
February 27, 2009 12:15 PM
Sam wrote:
Nah....the idea that Judas hanged himself from one, that's all. Again, some conjecture by MAN. I've heard lots of theories on how Judas died--on a sword, on a tree, striking rocks on the ground....heck, I don't know.
And as far as the FOB,,,,can't help you there either. Bible doesn't say, and I'm too lazy to hunt through history books to see if anything is said about this field.
February 27, 2009 12:25 PM
Dustin wrote:
As for tomorrow, my wife said "if you feel the need to fellowship then go, BUT, if you dont i would like to spend sometime with you." What do you think? Im stuck on the answer. I want to do both.
Anyway, thanks for the insite. i will try and see if i can dig up anything on the fob.
Last question (maybe), were do you think Judas went? up or down? Reply to this
February 27, 2009 12:46 PM
Sam wrote:
Spend THE DAY with your wife, then a coupla hours in the evening with the brothers to celebrate birthdays....that's my suggestion. But make THE DAY special somehow. Then, when you leave at 5:15 you will know you have done right by your spouse.
Down (or whereever Hell really is). EVEN THOUGH he may have been saved by grace (initially), I think His crime was inexcusable....much like the only sin for which there is no salvation (you know what THAT one is, don't you?). After all, in ACTs, the following is said about Judas: "Then they prayed, 'Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.'" "to go where he belongs"---most certainly doesn't sound like Heaven, does it? Reply to this
February 27, 2009 3:26 PM
Johnbob wrote:
I think down - though I have heard some sermons comparing his betrayal with Peter's denial and both their subsequent reactions. He might have had a window - I don't know, but he chose suicide instead of dealing with it, if directly and physically betraying God's Son is able to be dealt with. Reply to this
February 27, 2009 3:33 PM
Johnbob wrote:
Good question - I would assume you could come up with a scenario where both are plausible. One scenario I have heard is that Judas hung himself about the field and somehow fell (branch snapped?). And the rest of the disgusting stuff happened (intestines and all). And apparently hanging didn't necessarily mean from a rope back then.
Mac, I think I disagree in regards to the bible being possibly changed on this one - it would seem to be the other way around - if man were trying to put together a bible that no one would struggle with, they would have changed one of the two accounts to match the other. Instead they left it as is.
What is your address and what is the time of the party? Reply to this
February 27, 2009 4:12 PM
Sam wrote:
KOOL....I LOVE conflict...I mean, disagreement, I mean, discussion!!!!!! I oft times 'say' things just to get people excited enough to prove me wrong. I think it's a great way to learn...especially when you DO prove someone wrong, you really remember it a lot longer I think!!
Hey
6 PM (BOTH Parties---tomorrow for Birthdays, and the 14th of March for THE party (St Pats)).
Address: 5144 Kings Hwy, Douglasville. A trek from your place--probably 45-50 mins, depending. Traffic shouldnt be bad on a Sat afternoon. I-20 West to Exit #34, left onto HWY 5 for about 1.8 miles, left onto Kings Hwy and go about 2.8 miles (on right---big brick house, corner of Kings Hwy and Shallow Creek Lane). Reply to this
February 27, 2009 7:06 PM
Rich wrote:
I often find single words in certain passages to be interesting. Not that I want to build my faith on single words! I just find certain things curious. For example in Matt 27:1, we read that: "Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death." I find ALL interesting. Apparently EVERYONE of the chief priests and EVERYONE of the elders agreed to kill Jesus. No one dissented. Death is the ultimate extreme punishment. These guys were so riled up that ALL of them agreed to this act. Perhaps the mob syndrome. I wonder how many chief priests and elders there were. I picture quite a few but I am not sure. Anyone know how many chief priests and elders there would have been who called out of Jesus to be put to death?
Why did Judas kill himself (regardless of how it happened and whether his guts spilled out or he just died)? Obviously he felt severe remorse in his action. I wonder about the timing. Did Judas kill himself before Jesus was put on the cross or after? It appears before if we follow the order in the Bible. If so, why did he kill himself? Just because Jesus was arrested? Hadn't Judas seen Jesus calm the waters, heal the sick, feed the multitudes, raise the dead, walked right through a crowd full of people trying to kill him? Didn't Judas realize that Jesus could have worked a miracle and been free? What made Judas so certain that his act of betrayal would end up causing Jesus to die? Or maybe Judas really did have a conscience. Maybe Judas realized that he betrayed the man who loved him, cared for him, taught him, gave to him. Judas saw how his act (or maybe more appropriately, his sin) caused pain to Jesus. Judas saw himself for who he was, a miserable sinner. And his reaction to seeing himself was to kill himself. How did you FEEL when you realized the pain you caused Jesus? How do you fell when you sin today? Maybe we can learn something useful from Judas. Not to kill ourselves but to see and feel the pain we cause Jesus when we betray him by sinning. Reply to this
Okay.....now, is Pilate being a 'good guy' for once? When the chief priests and Pharisees asked that the tomb into which Jesus was placed be secured, Pilate ordered ONE guard be placed there. ONE guard? No backup? No one to keep him awake? MAYBE, just maybe, Pilate was attempting to redeem himself just a tiny bit instead of ordering a platoon of men to guard this tomb. Telling the pharisees to take one guard and 'make the tomb as secure as you can' could be construed that Pilate DID think that he was helping Jesus' followers by giving them an opportunity of sorts to do just what the Pharisees feared most at this time.
Just a thought.
It was obvious, however, that Pilate definitely didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, otherwise he might have made SURE this tomb was COMPLETELY sealed (more than just putting 'a seal on the stone') just to see if He would rise as Jesus said He would.
I 'dug deep', or hypothesized today, because this sad part of history has been told so many times it become very commonplace. I don't want this event, and the one to follow, become commonplace and boring...hence, I strived to find ANYTHING new to discuss.
Comments?
See most of you tomorrow night for a Birthday Party!!!!
Reply to this
Mac,
I am not sure if guard is singular - I believe it is plural - like the concept of a troop, company, batallion, etc. In chapter 28, when the angel comes, the guards (plural) were scared out of the minds.
Reply to this
Good point/explanation.
I LOVE being surrounded by Bible scholars! Helps me learn.
Reply to this
OK, In Matthew it says that judas hanged(is that proper english? should it be hung? sorry part of one of my talents)himself but in acts 1:18-19 it says something different. Acts says "and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out" and that Judas purchased the field called 'Akel Dama' (field of blood). Yet in Matthew it says the Chief Priests bought the field. I understand different authors but can anyone explain the big differences?
Reply to this
1 - 'hanged' is fine. Preferred is 'hung', but either is proper English.
2 - I guess he fell headlong from the limb of the tree?????????
Everyone, including I, ask this same question. Which was correct? No one knows...each make up their own interpretation. Have you looked at the KJV, NASB, original Greek or Hebrew at the various passages and see what they say, rather than just one version like the NIV. If you did, did you find anything different among them? I am sure you did (or will if you'll take my challenge and go to bible.cc and compare the many translations). Why is that? Well, let me answer...MAN wrote the Bible. MAN translated what MAN wrote. More than one MAN recorded what HE had heard/seen of any one given event. OF COURSE you are going to have contradictions all the time.
Now, some will tell you that the Word Of God, that is, YOUR BIBLE, is flawless because it is from God. I would tend to disagree (sorry Rik). I see several of these 'inconsistencies' throughout the 'gospels'. I also know that what you are reading today is not what was originally penned by the NT authors in all cases. Different rewrites of these books have been prevelant over the centuries, with MAN adding to /subtracting from what was originally written.
Many people will try to explain the differences, but in my mind, the only true explanation is that MAN (fallable MAN) has altered the original words written down, OR, the original words written down, if they exist as we read them today, WAS what was remembered by each different author.
BUT, the main point is this---no matter the discrepancies on 'trivial' matters like this, the gospel, the truth about salvation IS included in the Bible, and if read carefully, ALL authors agree to what is required for salvation, even though some leave some stuff out. James says works is required. Paul says you're saved by grace. Again, seeminly conflicting, but if we are do understand really what works are, and their ROLE in salvation, and what grace truly is, you'll see that they are in agreement.
Reply to this
UH OH, You said he hung himself from a tree. I have'nt found that tree listing in the bible yet. Could you tell me were to verify that? Or did you just go off of what Man said? he he anyway.
I was confused more about the field of blood/potter field.
Who bought it? Was it the high priests that decided that the money was blood money and it belonged to Judas so they declared the purchase in Judas's name, or did the High Priest just buy it? I really dont know im just tossing around ideas.
Reply to this
Nah....the idea that Judas hanged himself from one, that's all. Again, some conjecture by MAN. I've heard lots of theories on how Judas died--on a sword, on a tree, striking rocks on the ground....heck, I don't know.
And as far as the FOB,,,,can't help you there either. Bible doesn't say, and I'm too lazy to hunt through history books to see if anything is said about this field.
See you tomorrow?
Reply to this
As for tomorrow, my wife said "if you feel the need to fellowship then go, BUT, if you dont i would like to spend sometime with you." What do you think? Im stuck on the answer. I want to do both.
Anyway, thanks for the insite. i will try and see if i can dig up anything on the fob.
Last question (maybe), were do you think Judas went? up or down?
Reply to this
Spend THE DAY with your wife, then a coupla hours in the evening with the brothers to celebrate birthdays....that's my suggestion. But make THE DAY special somehow. Then, when you leave at 5:15 you will know you have done right by your spouse.
Down (or whereever Hell really is). EVEN THOUGH he may have been saved by grace (initially), I think His crime was inexcusable....much like the only sin for which there is no salvation (you know what THAT one is, don't you?). After all, in ACTs, the following is said about Judas: "Then they prayed, 'Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.'" "to go where he belongs"---most certainly doesn't sound like Heaven, does it?
Reply to this
I think down - though I have heard some sermons comparing his betrayal with Peter's denial and both their subsequent reactions. He might have had a window - I don't know, but he chose suicide instead of dealing with it, if directly and physically betraying God's Son is able to be dealt with.
Reply to this
Good question - I would assume you could come up with a scenario where both are plausible. One scenario I have heard is that Judas hung himself about the field and somehow fell (branch snapped?). And the rest of the disgusting stuff happened (intestines and all). And apparently hanging didn't necessarily mean from a rope back then.
Mac, I think I disagree in regards to the bible being possibly changed on this one - it would seem to be the other way around - if man were trying to put together a bible that no one would struggle with, they would have changed one of the two accounts to match the other. Instead they left it as is.
What is your address and what is the time of the party?
Reply to this
KOOL....I LOVE conflict...I mean, disagreement, I mean, discussion!!!!!! I oft times 'say' things just to get people excited enough to prove me wrong. I think it's a great way to learn...especially when you DO prove someone wrong, you really remember it a lot longer I think!!
Hey
6 PM (BOTH Parties---tomorrow for Birthdays, and the 14th of March for THE party (St Pats)).
Address: 5144 Kings Hwy, Douglasville.
A trek from your place--probably 45-50 mins, depending. Traffic shouldnt be bad on a Sat afternoon. I-20 West to Exit #34, left onto HWY 5 for about 1.8 miles, left onto Kings Hwy and go about 2.8 miles (on right---big brick house, corner of Kings Hwy and Shallow Creek Lane).
Reply to this
I often find single words in certain passages to be interesting. Not that I want to build my faith on single words! I just find certain things curious. For example in Matt 27:1, we read that: "Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death." I find ALL interesting. Apparently EVERYONE of the chief priests and EVERYONE of the elders agreed to kill Jesus. No one dissented. Death is the ultimate extreme punishment. These guys were so riled up that ALL of them agreed to this act. Perhaps the mob syndrome. I wonder how many chief priests and elders there were. I picture quite a few but I am not sure. Anyone know how many chief priests and elders there would have been who called out of Jesus to be put to death?
Why did Judas kill himself (regardless of how it happened and whether his guts spilled out or he just died)? Obviously he felt severe remorse in his action. I wonder about the timing. Did Judas kill himself before Jesus was put on the cross or after? It appears before if we follow the order in the Bible. If so, why did he kill himself? Just because Jesus was arrested? Hadn't Judas seen Jesus calm the waters, heal the sick, feed the multitudes, raise the dead, walked right through a crowd full of people trying to kill him? Didn't Judas realize that Jesus could have worked a miracle and been free? What made Judas so certain that his act of betrayal would end up causing Jesus to die? Or maybe Judas really did have a conscience. Maybe Judas realized that he betrayed the man who loved him, cared for him, taught him, gave to him. Judas saw how his act (or maybe more appropriately, his sin) caused pain to Jesus. Judas saw himself for who he was, a miserable sinner. And his reaction to seeing himself was to kill himself. How did you FEEL when you realized the pain you caused Jesus? How do you fell when you sin today? Maybe we can learn something useful from Judas. Not to kill ourselves but to see and feel the pain we cause Jesus when we betray him by sinning.
Reply to this
I know three words
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