Jesus has taken the time to tell His disciples of some 'future' acts---where the Son of Man, Jesus, will 'return' to earth to gather His people up, and presumably, 'take them to Heaven'. Of course, the confusing passage of most all is when He say that "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Some scholars say that the word 'generation' did not mean 'generation', but 'age', that is, a period in which the earth is right now, and that 'age' would end at the coming of the Son of Man. THAT is stretching it some. If you take the fact that the Greek word used in this passage for 'generation', genea, at least in common (Koine) Greek, can also mean 'race'. So, if THAT were how Jesus was using the term, then it is much more easily understood....the race of man would "certainly not pass away until all these things have happened".
I started off this discussion by saying that Jesus was referring to some 'future' event. I DO believe it was future to his 'Olivet Discourse', but was He referring to 'their', the Disciples' 'generation', that is, the 40 or so years they lived back then? Or, was He referring to some farther future event? Jack Lewis (you might know him as C.S. Lewis, but his friends called him Jack) once wrote that "this is the most embarrassing verse in the Bible" ('The World's Last Night and Other Essays')--you can read the words to this at this website...VERY interesting stuff/thoughts: http://www.archive.org/stream/worldslastnighta012347mbp/worldslastnighta012347mbp_djvu.txt
I am certain none of you, nor I, REALLY understand what Jesus meant by saying that "this generation will certainly not pass away". Did the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem fullfil that statement? Is genera referring to a period of time certain peoples live, or to the entire race of humans? Was Jesus simply trying to impress upon his immediate listeners to change their ways of sin and warn others of the same?
Questions I can not answer. But I DO know that Jesus will indeed come back some day....WHENEVER that is...(there is no way that 'the last day' has already occurred in history----no event so far has fulfilled all the prophecy of 'the last day' throughout the Old and New Testaments.)
So, don't get hung up on this 'clearly confusing' passage and just know that as Christians, whenever that day comes, we are prepared, as we have been given, and accepted, the fabulous gift of Grace from God.
PS
Tony has replied he will be at the house Saturday for pizza, poker, pool, and Dustin has indicated he'll check with his wife....what about the rest of ya'll? Can I count on your support and help and fellowship this Saturday evening at 6? Reply to this
But in terms of your review of Matthew 24 - yes, it is a bit confusing, but the bottom line for me is the emphasis is that Jesus is coming back. And just as the Jews didn't recognize Jesus for who he was, we need to be ready in case He comes back during our lifetime. In fact, we need to live as if he could come back any time - that is going to affect my thought pattern, knowing that Jesus could come back! Like a thief in the night, it will be at an hour I don't expect.
In regards to the 'generation' thing. I think you are right in your suggestion that the destruction of the temple fulfills that statement. The 'abomination that causes desolation' from Daniel describes when the temple is desecrated (I don't recall the specifics of what happened or when). So the Romans will destroy the temple (which they did in 70 AD), and apparently, when the armies come to do that, it will be swift, and the disciples better head for the hills right away (per douglasjacoby.com, this is what they did).
So while some of the passage is talking about this specific event, the other part of the passage, which seems to be intertwined with the destruction of the temple prophecy, discusses the return of Jesus and the end of time - there is no timeline for that, even though it refers to 'At that time' in verse 30 is not talking about the destruction of the temple, it is referring to the time during which Jesus is coming back.
So I doubt I shed any light on this - maybe given some time and study, it would be straightforward. But the message is 'Pay attention - this is important - this is real - make sure you persevere, etc.' And I know the bible talks about grace quite a bit, but the end of this chapter is a bit 'scary' (remember our discussion on fearing God?) --- v. 51 says "He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." There will be a lot of regret if I don't listen to these words and take heed.
Also, I replied to a couple blogs yesterday - I think they were important replies if you have time to go back and read them. Reply to this
February 24, 2009 10:27 PM
Tony wrote:
Verses 6-8 the beginning of birth pains. How long are we going to be in birth pains? Some births are are very long and hard, others happen quickly. We have been having birth pains for centuries. When will we learn to follow the word of God. Wars, we have had are are still in they run constantly in the east. Famine has been going on forever other countries. Recent earthquakes, flooding, soonamies, we are in the end of times. The question is, how long will the birthing last? Do we have time to keep getting it wrong? Will the day come tomorrow? We all need to look at the things we do on a daily basis and think, what if today is the day? There will be no more, I'll repent tomorrow. No more, I'll apologize tomorrow. No more I'll change my heart tomorrow. No more tomorrows. The bible says we are but a mist and are not promised tomorrow but to live for today, paraphrased of course. We must live our lives as if Jesus was coming now. Not tomorrow, not next week, but today and now. We have nation against nation, we have people being killed because of their faith, when will we wake up and see what is going on around us? God is patient. There was a beginning for mankind and one day there will be an end. Not to be dismal and depressing but thats just what hit me. Reply to this
In the words of someone famous, "Alrighty now!"
Jesus has taken the time to tell His disciples of some 'future' acts---where the Son of Man, Jesus, will 'return' to earth to gather His people up, and presumably, 'take them to Heaven'. Of course, the confusing passage of most all is when He say that "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Some scholars say that the word 'generation' did not mean 'generation', but 'age', that is, a period in which the earth is right now, and that 'age' would end at the coming of the Son of Man. THAT is stretching it some. If you take the fact that the Greek word used in this passage for 'generation', genea, at least in common (Koine) Greek, can also mean 'race'. So, if THAT were how Jesus was using the term, then it is much more easily understood....the race of man would "certainly not pass away until all these things have happened".
I started off this discussion by saying that Jesus was referring to some 'future' event. I DO believe it was future to his 'Olivet Discourse', but was He referring to 'their', the Disciples' 'generation', that is, the 40 or so years they lived back then? Or, was He referring to some farther future event? Jack Lewis (you might know him as C.S. Lewis, but his friends called him Jack) once wrote that "this is the most embarrassing verse in the Bible" ('The World's Last Night and Other Essays')--you can read the words to this at this website...VERY interesting stuff/thoughts: http://www.archive.org/stream/worldslastnighta012347mbp/worldslastnighta012347mbp_djvu.txt
I am certain none of you, nor I, REALLY understand what Jesus meant by saying that "this generation will certainly not pass away". Did the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem fullfil that statement? Is genera referring to a period of time certain peoples live, or to the entire race of humans? Was Jesus simply trying to impress upon his immediate listeners to change their ways of sin and warn others of the same?
Questions I can not answer. But I DO know that Jesus will indeed come back some day....WHENEVER that is...(there is no way that 'the last day' has already occurred in history----no event so far has fulfilled all the prophecy of 'the last day' throughout the Old and New Testaments.)
So, don't get hung up on this 'clearly confusing' passage and just know that as Christians, whenever that day comes, we are prepared, as we have been given, and accepted, the fabulous gift of Grace from God.
PS
Tony has replied he will be at the house Saturday for pizza, poker, pool, and Dustin has indicated he'll check with his wife....what about the rest of ya'll? Can I count on your support and help and fellowship this Saturday evening at 6?
Reply to this
YA WHAT HE SAID
Reply to this
Mac, I am not sure about Saturday - will let you know manana.
But in terms of your review of Matthew 24 - yes, it is a bit confusing, but the bottom line for me is the emphasis is that Jesus is coming back. And just as the Jews didn't recognize Jesus for who he was, we need to be ready in case He comes back during our lifetime. In fact, we need to live as if he could come back any time - that is going to affect my thought pattern, knowing that Jesus could come back! Like a thief in the night, it will be at an hour I don't expect.
In regards to the 'generation' thing. I think you are right in your suggestion that the destruction of the temple fulfills that statement. The 'abomination that causes desolation' from Daniel describes when the temple is desecrated (I don't recall the specifics of what happened or when). So the Romans will destroy the temple (which they did in 70 AD), and apparently, when the armies come to do that, it will be swift, and the disciples better head for the hills right away (per douglasjacoby.com, this is what they did).
So while some of the passage is talking about this specific event, the other part of the passage, which seems to be intertwined with the destruction of the temple prophecy, discusses the return of Jesus and the end of time - there is no timeline for that, even though it refers to 'At that time' in verse 30 is not talking about the destruction of the temple, it is referring to the time during which Jesus is coming back.
So I doubt I shed any light on this - maybe given some time and study, it would be straightforward. But the message is 'Pay attention - this is important - this is real - make sure you persevere, etc.' And I know the bible talks about grace quite a bit, but the end of this chapter is a bit 'scary' (remember our discussion on fearing God?) --- v. 51 says "He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." There will be a lot of regret if I don't listen to these words and take heed.
Also, I replied to a couple blogs yesterday - I think they were important replies if you have time to go back and read them.
Reply to this
Verses 6-8 the beginning of birth pains. How long are we going to be in birth pains? Some births are are very long and hard, others happen quickly. We have been having birth pains for centuries. When will we learn to follow the word of God. Wars, we have had are are still in they run constantly in the east. Famine has been going on forever other countries. Recent earthquakes, flooding, soonamies, we are in the end of times. The question is, how long will the birthing last? Do we have time to keep getting it wrong? Will the day come tomorrow? We all need to look at the things we do on a daily basis and think, what if today is the day? There will be no more, I'll repent tomorrow. No more, I'll apologize tomorrow. No more I'll change my heart tomorrow. No more tomorrows. The bible says we are but a mist and are not promised tomorrow but to live for today, paraphrased of course. We must live our lives as if Jesus was coming now. Not tomorrow, not next week, but today and now. We have nation against nation, we have people being killed because of their faith, when will we wake up and see what is going on around us? God is patient. There was a beginning for mankind and one day there will be an end. Not to be dismal and depressing but thats just what hit me.
Reply to this