January 21, 2009 6:11 AM
Rich wrote:
From yesterday, I Tim 2, I agree with Tony. I do not pray "for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness." Paul goes on to say that this "pleases" God. So God is happy if/when I pray for leaders. Right after I read this passage I prayed for our new president, his cabinet and the many challenges that our nation is facing. Difficult times can be good if they turn people to God. A new leader can inspire peace and harmony. Mr Obama has a great gift (of speech) and he represents much of what makes America a great nation - we actually live much of what we preach (equality for all, freedom, representation by the people, and so on). But will that all translate into peace and will it promote God's goal that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." Much, much to pray about!!!
I Tim 3 has always fascinated me. Here Paul lays out specific requirements for elders and deacons. Was this meant to be a list that churches should apply today? The attributes described are similar to what a company might desire from a CEO or board member. But is one violation a deal breaker? I don't really know. Like I said, this chapter has always fascinated me and made me wonder.
Another question I have. In verse 15 we see the phrase: "the pillar and foundation of the truth." Paul is using these words to describe the church here (specifically, God's household). When you think of the church you attend, do the words "the pillar and foundation of the truth" come to mind? If so, why? If not, why? Should the church be the pillar and foundation of the truth today, or is that what the Bible is supposed to be? I am interested to see what others think. Reply to this
January 21, 2009 12:45 PM
Sam wrote:
Absolutely SHOULD apply to churches today. This chapter gives me no indication that it would have only been for a snapshot in time. And, besides, those traits of a Deacon/overseer should be desireable in any type of an organization, but I think required in an organization designed to lead others toward Christ.
The church which I attend does not jump out at me as be a pillar and foundation of the truty. Although I think most folks' intentions are good, I think some misunderstand the Scriptures, some just like to throw in their own feelings, opinions and interpretations, and some simply pick and choose (P&C) Scriptures they feel are 'the important ones'. The truth is the WHOLE truth, not just the parts or even the sum of some of the parts. God's organization needs to be a pillar (not a pillow, Rik) build on a strong foundation. And that foundation is THE TRUTH, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, of Jesus Christ Himself. If falsehoods are allowed to be part of the organization, it will fail (we have seen that, have we not?). The church I am attending touts itself as one which "allows anybody to belong, regardless of their sins." Now, THAT is a good thing, however, it doesn't seem to want to 'enforce' the truth that continuance in sin can lead to falling away....they hint at once-saved, always saved, although it is never said. In my opinion from reading the Bible, that is a falsehood. The church believes in child baptism (maybe not baby, but child, anyway). I have seen kids as young as 9 years old get dunked in the 'baptistry', a practice I do not believe follows the truth of the Bible. The last preacher (stand in for the one that quit last Fall) spoke about THREE Wise Men (as if that was the truth, when in fact there were three types of GIFTS, but could have been two, three, four, five or even more 'wise men' who brought those gifts) and called them KINGS! He said they were regal Kings, hence had special stature as kings, instead of calling them what they were (scientist, sorcerers, wise men, or whatever the Bible calls them). This was not the truth. Yes, the church SHOULD be teaching the TRUTH, and should be using teachings that have less interpretation, and more direct truths. That's what "I" think! Reply to this
January 21, 2009 1:58 PM
rik wrote:
I am super encouraged with what North river is doing on a regular basis. The elders and evangelists are being careful not to repeat mistakes made in the past, yet are spurring ooneanother on to love and good deeds. Yes I see a pillar and a foundation built on Jesus who is the truth. Reply to this
January 21, 2009 7:31 AM
Sam wrote:
Like father, like son. 2nd Kings 21 describes a detestable man who became king of Judah at the ripe old age of 12. Manasseh was his name. He did evil in the eyes of the Lord all 55 years during which he reigned as king. He built altars to other things (starry hosts and Baal) and erected an Asherah Pole and even sacrificed his own son in a fire. All this provoked God which caused Him to promise to destroy all of Jerusalem some day (interesting that God didn't do it while Manassah was king). Then, at the end of his 55 year rule over Judah, the Bible says 'he rested with his fathers and was buried...'. Then comes 'the son' part. Amon, born when Manassah was 45 years old, continued in his father's way as King of Judah. He did every detestable thing his father had done.
Yup, Like father, like son.
How many times have you seen your traits in your own son? Rich told of Richey's ways of 18 and compared them to his own ways when he himself was that old. I see traits of my Dad in me. Stubborness, gruffness, hardworking, and even some expressions, like 'they-ya', for 'there, done'! What traits do you see in yourself that you saw in your father, or see in your son(s)? Are they good traits, or are they 'detestable to God'?
Again, Like Father, like Son. (oops, I capitalized Father and son!-- ) Well, that's the point. Jesus' Father's traits were seen in Jesus. Love being the most evident. However, I do note that a couple of particular traits of God, His wrath, His anger, we never really evident in the life we get to read about in Jesus. Although Jesus did display a bit of 'anger' inside the Temple, all other stories we read of Him showed no desire to 'rain down fire on people'. However, Like Father, like Son, Jesus loved people. He even loved people who hated Him. A lot of His Father's ability to love became the central theme of Jesus' teachings.
Do you see a lot of good traits in your father, you, and your son(s)? It is easy to find the bad ones, but sometimes it takes a time of reflection to pick out those good ones. If you do find some, I suggest you talk to your father (if he's alive), and your son(s) and tell them of the GOOD traits you all share. I'll bet it will please them AND you.
Manassah and Amon were bad characters. As Christians, we are not supposed to be like them. OUR character should be that of our Heavenly Father. As we are called Sons of Christ, had we better not start/continue displaying those good traits we find in our Father? Reply to this
January 21, 2009 9:53 PM
Tony wrote:
I do not see my traits and habits in my son at all. i do not know if I am anything like my dad as I did not grow up with him. I'm sure I have plenty of bad habits of my own without any from my father. Try as I might I don't see my son picking up any of my better traits just the bad one, anger. Reply to this
January 21, 2009 9:48 AM
rik wrote:
overseers and deacons, I read the way these disciples should be and think and thought to myself, shouldn't we all strive to be this way? we should all want to have and be known for these characteristics. ever sense I was baptized I have longed to be an elder, and I still do. I want my children to be faithful and obedient to Gods word, I want my wife to be a awesome woman of God, A deaconess if you will. I desire to be known by my brother and sisters as gentle and compassionate. I occasionally loose hope when some of life's circumstances come along, but when I read stuff like what I read this morning it inspires me to have the dream again. I have not screwed up bad enough to change my eligibility yet, (and prayerfully I wont). I challenge those of us that are mature in our Christianity to think back to the dreams of our disciple youth. the ones that are not fulfilled yet pray for them again. and for the ones who are just beginning there journey, dream big! Dream spiritual dreams. God can move any mountain, God can do anything you ask if you ask with the right motives. Reply to this
Im down in the pits today. I have this horrible overwhelmed feeling like im carrying all the wait of the world on my shoulders. I guess that with the way things in my life are going that the trouble im in has finally surfaced.
My wife is going to be out of a job here in 6 days. That means she will not be bringing home any income. So everything will be on me and my income.
We did our first basic budget on monday and found out that we where 1500.00 over what i make each month. luckily we wont have the cost of daycare anymore so that drops us down to actually about 700.00 over my income. In doing our first budget i realized that i dont have a love for money so that is good. But i do love to spend money and so does my wife. Which is a bad thing.
After reading todays and yesterdays scripture about how we as men are supposed to be the leaders of our families and disciples of jesus and did you know i have sat here trying to write this for over an hour.
I guess that it is just fear that is overwhelming me. Last night at the study one of the key things that was repeated a lot was giving up everything to be baptized. I dont know what it is that i am holding on to so deeply that i cant get my brain to finally say im ready. My heart wants it but i cant get myself to say im ready. and then there was this: "5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)". Wow just so much. Guys i need help. I need to turn my life around from where im going right now. I need to figure out what it is that is stopping me/holding me back. I have no control over my family, finances, life, i need to give it all away to Jesus and beg for his forgiveness and give up everything. i just dont know how.
January 21, 2009 10:47 AM
rik wrote:
Nike thinks they coined the phrase "just do it" but I believe it is what God has been saying for thousands of years. Dustin, Just do it, give it up to God. Speak to Him, say these things to Him, cry out for help. your Father in Heaven will listen. Believe, have faith, trust, this is how. Reply to this
I wanted to just give you the advice of letting Jesus shoulder your problems (and that IS good advice, by the way), but then I was reminded of the Scripture that says, "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:14-16)
I would like to see if I can DO something for you and your family. It may not be much, but I will gladly help you write up a resume for your wife (if she doesn't have one), or review the one she might have, AND, see if I can find a place where she could work.
Just let me know WHAT she does, WHERE she wants to work, and/or what she would LIKE to do for work. Can't promise ANYTHING, but I will try. Reply to this
January 21, 2009 12:52 PM
Dustin wrote:
TO RIK- Thank you for the phone call TO SAM- She is an SK in the navy and she really wants to be a stay home mom, but having her resume done soon after getting out would be a great idea. Thank you for the offer. I will talk to her about it. And if your willing i need some help with mine also..
So i was sitting here with my feet up and my head leaned back on the chair and decided to pray. I asked what is stopping me from giving up everything? Why cant i make that life long decision to follow Jesus? Why cant i say That im ready? and before i even said AMEN ....PRIDE.... Was written behind my eye lids.
Rik you nailed it on the head during our phone call just not in these words. I am to proud to ask for help. Thats why i cant say im ready. I need to give up my pride.
Which scripture can i read that will give me help on giving up my pride so that i can say im ready?
And yes i am asking for your help. my body is being pulled in to different directions, the one that says this is the way and the one that says stick to your old life. My pride is preventing me from allowing Jesus into my life completely.
Help me brothers, i think this is my biggest hurdle before baptism. I almost feel ready.
Writing this actually brought a smile to my face ... Reply to this
January 21, 2009 10:28 PM
Tony wrote:
If we cannot manage our own family (spiritually) how can we try to help anyone manage their spiritual life? Prayer,petition, bible study and relationships. I don't manage my family worth a darn. My kids are out of control, my wife, I don't have that much time tonight. What is the difference in the way a deacon should act verses the way a disciple should act? I see no difference. If we were men of God as we should, our wives would be as described in verse 11. We must rely on the truth and nothing but. We need to be like the bereans and search out and study the scriptures to find the answers.
Please pray for Terry's uncle Donnie as he is in the hospital in Intensive care on life support, he is not breathing on his own. They think he had a stroke on Monday and he also has pneumonia . Reply to this
From yesterday, I Tim 2, I agree with Tony. I do not pray "for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness." Paul goes on to say that this "pleases" God. So God is happy if/when I pray for leaders. Right after I read this passage I prayed for our new president, his cabinet and the many challenges that our nation is facing. Difficult times can be good if they turn people to God. A new leader can inspire peace and harmony. Mr Obama has a great gift (of speech) and he represents much of what makes America a great nation - we actually live much of what we preach (equality for all, freedom, representation by the people, and so on). But will that all translate into peace and will it promote God's goal that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." Much, much to pray about!!!
I Tim 3 has always fascinated me. Here Paul lays out specific requirements for elders and deacons. Was this meant to be a list that churches should apply today? The attributes described are similar to what a company might desire from a CEO or board member. But is one violation a deal breaker? I don't really know. Like I said, this chapter has always fascinated me and made me wonder.
Another question I have. In verse 15 we see the phrase: "the pillar and foundation of the truth." Paul is using these words to describe the church here (specifically, God's household). When you think of the church you attend, do the words "the pillar and foundation of the truth" come to mind? If so, why? If not, why? Should the church be the pillar and foundation of the truth today, or is that what the Bible is supposed to be? I am interested to see what others think.
Reply to this
Absolutely SHOULD apply to churches today. This chapter gives me no indication that it would have only been for a snapshot in time. And, besides, those traits of a Deacon/overseer should be desireable in any type of an organization, but I think required in an organization designed to lead others toward Christ.
The church which I attend does not jump out at me as be a pillar and foundation of the truty. Although I think most folks' intentions are good, I think some misunderstand the Scriptures, some just like to throw in their own feelings, opinions and interpretations, and some simply pick and choose (P&C) Scriptures they feel are 'the important ones'. The truth is the WHOLE truth, not just the parts or even the sum of some of the parts. God's organization needs to be a pillar (not a pillow, Rik) build on a strong foundation. And that foundation is THE TRUTH, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, of Jesus Christ Himself. If falsehoods are allowed to be part of the organization, it will fail (we have seen that, have we not?).
The church I am attending touts itself as one which "allows anybody to belong, regardless of their sins." Now, THAT is a good thing, however, it doesn't seem to want to 'enforce' the truth that continuance in sin can lead to falling away....they hint at once-saved, always saved, although it is never said. In my opinion from reading the Bible, that is a falsehood.
The church believes in child baptism (maybe not baby, but child, anyway). I have seen kids as young as 9 years old get dunked in the 'baptistry', a practice I do not believe follows the truth of the Bible. The last preacher (stand in for the one that quit last Fall) spoke about THREE Wise Men (as if that was the truth, when in fact there were three types of GIFTS, but could have been two, three, four, five or even more 'wise men' who brought those gifts) and called them KINGS! He said they were regal Kings, hence had special stature as kings, instead of calling them what they were (scientist, sorcerers, wise men, or whatever the Bible calls them). This was not the truth.
Yes, the church SHOULD be teaching the TRUTH, and should be using teachings that have less interpretation, and more direct truths.
That's what "I" think!
Reply to this
I am super encouraged with what North river is doing on a regular basis. The elders and evangelists are being careful not to repeat mistakes made in the past, yet are spurring ooneanother on to love and good deeds. Yes I see a pillar and a foundation built on Jesus who is the truth.
Reply to this
Like father, like son.
2nd Kings 21 describes a detestable man who became king of Judah at the ripe old age of 12. Manasseh was his name. He did evil in the eyes of the Lord all 55 years during which he reigned as king. He built altars to other things (starry hosts and Baal) and erected an Asherah Pole and even sacrificed his own son in a fire. All this provoked God which caused Him to promise to destroy all of Jerusalem some day (interesting that God didn't do it while Manassah was king). Then, at the end of his 55 year rule over Judah, the Bible says 'he rested with his fathers and was buried...'.
Then comes 'the son' part. Amon, born when Manassah was 45 years old, continued in his father's way as King of Judah. He did every detestable thing his father had done.
Yup, Like father, like son.
How many times have you seen your traits in your own son? Rich told of Richey's ways of 18 and compared them to his own ways when he himself was that old. I see traits of my Dad in me. Stubborness, gruffness, hardworking, and even some expressions, like 'they-ya', for 'there, done'! What traits do you see in yourself that you saw in your father, or see in your son(s)? Are they good traits, or are they 'detestable to God'?
Again, Like Father, like Son. (oops, I capitalized Father and son!--
Do you see a lot of good traits in your father, you, and your son(s)? It is easy to find the bad ones, but sometimes it takes a time of reflection to pick out those good ones. If you do find some, I suggest you talk to your father (if he's alive), and your son(s) and tell them of the GOOD traits you all share. I'll bet it will please them AND you.
Manassah and Amon were bad characters. As Christians, we are not supposed to be like them. OUR character should be that of our Heavenly Father. As we are called Sons of Christ, had we better not start/continue displaying those good traits we find in our Father?
Reply to this
I do not see my traits and habits in my son at all. i do not know if I am anything like my dad as I did not grow up with him. I'm sure I have plenty of bad habits of my own without any from my father. Try as I might I don't see my son picking up any of my better traits just the bad one, anger.
Reply to this
overseers and deacons, I read the way these disciples should be and think and thought to myself, shouldn't we all strive to be this way? we should all want to have and be known for these characteristics. ever sense I was baptized I have longed to be an elder, and I still do. I want my children to be faithful and obedient to Gods word, I want my wife to be a awesome woman of God, A deaconess if you will. I desire to be known by my brother and sisters as gentle and compassionate. I occasionally loose hope when some of life's circumstances come along, but when I read stuff like what I read this morning it inspires me to have the dream again. I have not screwed up bad enough to change my eligibility yet, (and prayerfully I wont). I challenge those of us that are mature in our Christianity to think back to the dreams of our disciple youth. the ones that are not fulfilled yet pray for them again. and for the ones who are just beginning there journey, dream big! Dream spiritual dreams. God can move any mountain, God can do anything you ask if you ask with the right motives.
Reply to this
Good Morning All,
Im down in the pits today. I have this horrible overwhelmed feeling like im carrying all the wait of the world on my shoulders. I guess that with the way things in my life are going that the trouble im in has finally surfaced.
My wife is going to be out of a job here in 6 days. That means she will not be bringing home any income. So everything will be on me and my income.
We did our first basic budget on monday and found out that we where 1500.00 over what i make each month. luckily we wont have the cost of daycare anymore so that drops us down to actually about 700.00 over my income. In doing our first budget i realized that i dont have a love for money so that is good. But i do love to spend money and so does my wife. Which is a bad thing.
After reading todays and yesterdays scripture about how we as men are supposed to be the leaders of our families and disciples of jesus and did you know i have sat here trying to write this for over an hour.
I guess that it is just fear that is overwhelming me. Last night at the study one of the key things that was repeated a lot was giving up everything to be baptized. I dont know what it is that i am holding on to so deeply that i cant get my brain to finally say im ready. My heart wants it but i cant get myself to say im ready. and then there was this: "5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)". Wow just so much. Guys i need help. I need to turn my life around from where im going right now. I need to figure out what it is that is stopping me/holding me back. I have no control over my family, finances, life, i need to give it all away to Jesus and beg for his forgiveness and give up everything. i just dont know how.
Suprisingly i feel a little better.
Reply to this
Nike thinks they coined the phrase "just do it" but I believe it is what God has been saying for thousands of years. Dustin, Just do it, give it up to God. Speak to Him, say these things to Him, cry out for help. your Father in Heaven will listen. Believe, have faith, trust, this is how.
Reply to this
What does your wife do for work? Does she have a resume?
I wanted to just give you the advice of letting Jesus shoulder your problems (and that IS good advice, by the way), but then I was reminded of the Scripture that says,
"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:14-16)
I would like to see if I can DO something for you and your family. It may not be much, but I will gladly help you write up a resume for your wife (if she doesn't have one), or review the one she might have, AND, see if I can find a place where she could work.
Just let me know WHAT she does, WHERE she wants to work, and/or what she would LIKE to do for work. Can't promise ANYTHING, but I will try.
Reply to this
TO RIK- Thank you for the phone call
TO SAM- She is an SK in the navy and she really wants to be a stay home mom, but having her resume done soon after getting out would be a great idea. Thank you for the offer. I will talk to her about it. And if your willing i need some help with mine also..
So i was sitting here with my feet up and my head leaned back on the chair and decided to pray. I asked what is stopping me from giving up everything? Why cant i make that life long decision to follow Jesus? Why cant i say That im ready? and before i even said AMEN ....PRIDE.... Was written behind my eye lids.
Rik you nailed it on the head during our phone call just not in these words.
I am to proud to ask for help. Thats why i cant say im ready. I need to give up my pride.
Which scripture can i read that will give me help on giving up my pride so that i can say im ready?
And yes i am asking for your help. my body is being pulled in to different directions, the one that says this is the way and the one that says stick to your old life. My pride is preventing me from allowing Jesus into my life completely.
Help me brothers, i think this is my biggest hurdle before baptism. I almost feel ready.
Writing this actually brought a smile to my face
Reply to this
JOB 33 answers alot
Reply to this
psalm 10:1-7 & 13-18 answers to my feelings
Reply to this
If we cannot manage our own family (spiritually) how can we try to help anyone manage their spiritual life? Prayer,petition, bible study and relationships. I don't manage my family worth a darn. My kids are out of control, my wife, I don't have that much time tonight. What is the difference in the way a deacon should act verses the way a disciple should act? I see no difference. If we were men of God as we should, our wives would be as described in verse 11. We must rely on the truth and nothing but. We need to be like the bereans and search out and study the scriptures to find the answers.
Please pray for Terry's uncle Donnie as he is in the hospital in Intensive care on life support, he is not breathing on his own. They think he had a stroke on Monday and he also has pneumonia
.
Reply to this