November 23, 2008 8:40 AM
Mac wrote:
To JB, Excellent comparison yesterday. I saw Groundhog Day SOOOO long ago, I forgot what it was all about. Yes, Solomon does seem a bit odd here, but, ya know, as we (re)read this book, I've got a thought. Maybe, just maybe, he was writing it at one sitting, and much like one of my favorite artists, Stephen King or even Alfred Hitchcock, he leads us down an alternate path for a reason....to surprise us at the end with Paul Harvey's Rest Of The Story. King's and Hitch's yarns intertwine a lot of seemingly disparate avenues, but the reader always ends at the 'truth of the matter'. For those who aren't reading this book (it seems like it's just you and I JB doing the daily thing), much will be missed. It is impossible to start in the middle of a SK or AH book and get the full enjoyment out of the mystery. And this is just what Ecc is, a mystery. Chapters 1 and 2, for those who have not read them yet, discuss a bunch of things which are, according to Solomon, MEANINGLESS, a vanity of vanities. BUT, in chapter three, our great 'mystery' writer is going to introduce another spin, a story within a story...JUST like my favorites authors Steve and Al. Chapter 3: After Solomon gets through reciting Pete Seeger's great song, "Turn, Turn, Turn" (yes, Pete Seeger (a GREAT Folk Singer) wrote it in the '50s and published it in 1962. The Byrds' version, of which you probably know, was not done until 1965), he (Solomon, in case I lost you) starts talking more sense. He says that our lot in life is to enjoy our work and be happy. And really, what else is there? Our work should be oriented toward God with purposes to make a happy life for one's self and family and friends (and even enemies as Jesus says) while we are here. Solomon tells us in verse 18 that God TESTS us, humbling us as if we were an animal (as all creatures eventually die and their bodies turn to dust). Now he gets a little Stephen Kingish (weird) here as he states (but I think as a misleading thought so his final conclusion will make more sense) that man has no advantage over an animal. We KNOW he does, except for that ONE fact that their bodies all end up back in the earth. He even gets one thinking about animals' and mans' souls final destination(s). Same? Different? He is leading us toward the final chapter in his book. That is what makes him a great author. Jesus spoke in parables, leading his followers and non-followers toward a final destination as well. Maybe, just maybe, as you read this book (if you do), then you might want to look at it as a mystery novel, with several stories within a story, and wait patiently for the all-revealing last chapter. Stephen King lives in Maine with his wife Tabitha. Alfred Hitchcock lived in England with his wife Alma before moving to Hollywood in 1939. He died in 1979. Pete (Charles) Seeger lives in NY with his wife Tashi-Oline. Solomon had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines and lived in Jerusalem. Reply to this
November 23, 2008 8:46 AM
Johnbob wrote:
Well - there is a lot here in these two chapters. There is a time for everything - We can't forget this scripture. The bottom line is things will (and should) change, and wisdom should dictate which one is chosen. Martin Luther determined it was a time to tear down the old man-made doctrines and traditions of the Catholic church and build a new church. For better or worse, in the 60s and 70s, it was a time for Chuck Lucas, Kip McKean and many others to 'kill' false doctrines and powerless/traditional christianity and embrace/plant faith, zeal, vision, etc. And beginning in 2003, it was time to 'throw away' the things that were wrong and begin to 'mend' and 'heal'. This is the approach Jim Lenahen has taken in our ministry the past couple years. We studied for months on grace. And months on relationships. I wouldn't say everything is great and perfect at Northview, but I would say I am in a much much better place. It has been much healthier for me. Along these lines, Rich and I had 'cofee' for 2.5+ hours yesterday - it was great. We ran into a brother who is not going to chuch but teaching his children at home - and being godly - he has just had some bad experiences. In the past I wouldn't necessarily have condemned him, but I am sure many would have. But in light of Ecclesiastes, there is a time for this, and maybe it is necessary for his salvation. Rich had the wisdom not to talk about church but to talk about relationships instead, which he said he missed, and he might be joining us in a couple weeks - he really seemed to want to anyway.
So there is a time for everything. And now it is time for me to get ready for church! Will write more later (if no one else has written - come on bruthas - the other reference regarding time is Encourage one another as long it is called Today). Reply to this
November 23, 2008 8:47 AM
Mac wrote:
Chapter 4. We once more traverse back into the realm of 'meaningless'. However, in his ranting, we can find a lot of true MEANING. Take verse 9 through 12, for example. "Two are better than one..", and he goes on to explain why. Absolutely.....we have friends to help us in this so Solomon-called meaningless life. We have spouses to 'keep us (and our hearts) warm'. We join with others for strength...a cord of three strands not quickly broken. (Rik, Tony and I used to call ourselves 'a cord of three strands', and was the first name of this blog site.) No Solomon...you may be able to fool the folks who only read part of your novel here, but not me. I know that our lives are NOT meaningless....so, let's get on with the book and see what you have to say in the next chapters! Reply to this
To JB,
Excellent comparison yesterday. I saw Groundhog Day SOOOO long ago, I forgot what it was all about. Yes, Solomon does seem a bit odd here, but, ya know, as we (re)read this book, I've got a thought. Maybe, just maybe, he was writing it at one sitting, and much like one of my favorite artists, Stephen King or even Alfred Hitchcock, he leads us down an alternate path for a reason....to surprise us at the end with Paul Harvey's Rest Of The Story. King's and Hitch's yarns intertwine a lot of seemingly disparate avenues, but the reader always ends at the 'truth of the matter'. For those who aren't reading this book (it seems like it's just you and I JB doing the daily thing), much will be missed. It is impossible to start in the middle of a SK or AH book and get the full enjoyment out of the mystery. And this is just what Ecc is, a mystery.
Chapters 1 and 2, for those who have not read them yet, discuss a bunch of things which are, according to Solomon, MEANINGLESS, a vanity of vanities. BUT, in chapter three, our great 'mystery' writer is going to introduce another spin, a story within a story...JUST like my favorites authors Steve and Al.
Chapter 3:
After Solomon gets through reciting Pete Seeger's great song, "Turn, Turn, Turn" (yes, Pete Seeger (a GREAT Folk Singer) wrote it in the '50s and published it in 1962. The Byrds' version, of which you probably know, was not done until 1965), he (Solomon, in case I lost you) starts talking more sense. He says that our lot in life is to enjoy our work and be happy. And really, what else is there? Our work should be oriented toward God with purposes to make a happy life for one's self and family and friends (and even enemies as Jesus says) while we are here.
Solomon tells us in verse 18 that God TESTS us, humbling us as if we were an animal (as all creatures eventually die and their bodies turn to dust). Now he gets a little Stephen Kingish (weird) here as he states (but I think as a misleading thought so his final conclusion will make more sense) that man has no advantage over an animal. We KNOW he does, except for that ONE fact that their bodies all end up back in the earth. He even gets one thinking about animals' and mans' souls final destination(s). Same? Different? He is leading us toward the final chapter in his book. That is what makes him a great author. Jesus spoke in parables, leading his followers and non-followers toward a final destination as well. Maybe, just maybe, as you read this book (if you do), then you might want to look at it as a mystery novel, with several stories within a story, and wait patiently for the all-revealing last chapter.
Stephen King lives in Maine with his wife Tabitha.
Alfred Hitchcock lived in England with his wife Alma before moving to Hollywood in 1939. He died in 1979.
Pete (Charles) Seeger lives in NY with his wife Tashi-Oline.
Solomon had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines and lived in Jerusalem.
Reply to this
Well - there is a lot here in these two chapters. There is a time for everything - We can't forget this scripture. The bottom line is things will (and should) change, and wisdom should dictate which one is chosen. Martin Luther determined it was a time to tear down the old man-made doctrines and traditions of the Catholic church and build a new church. For better or worse, in the 60s and 70s, it was a time for Chuck Lucas, Kip McKean and many others to 'kill' false doctrines and powerless/traditional christianity and embrace/plant faith, zeal, vision, etc. And beginning in 2003, it was time to 'throw away' the things that were wrong and begin to 'mend' and 'heal'. This is the approach Jim Lenahen has taken in our ministry the past couple years. We studied for months on grace. And months on relationships. I wouldn't say everything is great and perfect at Northview, but I would say I am in a much much better place. It has been much healthier for me. Along these lines, Rich and I had 'cofee' for 2.5+ hours yesterday - it was great. We ran into a brother who is not going to chuch but teaching his children at home - and being godly - he has just had some bad experiences. In the past I wouldn't necessarily have condemned him, but I am sure many would have. But in light of Ecclesiastes, there is a time for this, and maybe it is necessary for his salvation. Rich had the wisdom not to talk about church but to talk about relationships instead, which he said he missed, and he might be joining us in a couple weeks - he really seemed to want to anyway.
So there is a time for everything. And now it is time for me to get ready for church! Will write more later (if no one else has written - come on bruthas - the other reference regarding time is Encourage one another as long it is called Today).
Reply to this
Chapter 4.
We once more traverse back into the realm of 'meaningless'. However, in his ranting, we can find a lot of true MEANING. Take verse 9 through 12, for example. "Two are better than one..", and he goes on to explain why. Absolutely.....we have friends to help us in this so Solomon-called meaningless life. We have spouses to 'keep us (and our hearts) warm'. We join with others for strength...a cord of three strands not quickly broken. (Rik, Tony and I used to call ourselves 'a cord of three strands', and was the first name of this blog site.)
No Solomon...you may be able to fool the folks who only read part of your novel here, but not me. I know that our lives are NOT meaningless....so, let's get on with the book and see what you have to say in the next chapters!
Reply to this