October 25, 2008 8:12 AM
Sam wrote:
Do you think the men of Hezekiah kning of Judah, as it says in verse 1, learned anything when they were copying these proverbs spoken/recorded by Solomon? I would suspect a little, but I would wager 'not much'. As a scribe, you are not required to understand what you are copying, but simply to copy it as error-free as you possibly can. Here, I want you to try it....go to the next chapter (26) and type into this blog, verse 1...go ahead. I will also. "Like snow in summer or rain in harvest, hnor is not fitting for a fool." OOPs, I made a mistake...I misspelled 'honor'. I wonder if the proofreader of the works by these men of Hezekiah caught all errors they made! Anyway, now that I have simply copied that verse down, TRYING to pay attention to spellings and not missing any words, my thoughts were on getting it right--doing my job---, not analyzing what was being said. And be honest, you also probably didn't get anything out of that verse (except maybe you did only to try to disprove my theory). This is the same, that is, the same results---you don't get much out of these proverbs of Solomon---, if you only read through them. No, it takes time to analyze what you read, in order to understand them. You should try to understand what the writer was saying when he wrote these, keeping in mind the time period, the political and environmental atmosphere and the worries and highlights of the era. Only then, can you fully understand what the proverb is to mean to us in 2008. It usually takes reading a proverb over and over to 'get something out of it'.
The first time I read today's chapter, hardly nothing came to mind, so, of course, I started over. And what better place to spend some time is in the very first proverb. (As this chapter has 28 verses in it, maybe we ought to try to do just one VERSE a day in Feb 2009.) We should understand who Solomon was---a person who received DWFG (Direct Wisdom From God). He was, and remains, probably the wisest man ever to walk this earth (except Jesus). As copied by 'the men of Hezekiah' in verse 11---"A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.", or in other words, PRICELESS. What Solomon originally penned, and copied by men (and machine) over the centuries, is priceless to us today.
This direct wisdom Solomon got is being shared to us today. In verse 27a, he wrote that 'it is not good to eat too much honey'. This could be likened to 'reading too much of the Bible at one time'. WHAT? Blasphemous, you say? No, what I am saying, is if you spend time in only a very few verses (thoughts, stories, events), you will learn more than simply reading (skimming really) a whole bunch of God's Word at one time.
That having been said, I hope you read by entire blog today, as I sometimes get 'lengthy'. That is because I do not have the wisdom of Solomon, and can't simply make my points without attempting to fully explain them.
I challenge you today, to not only copy 26:1 Reply to this
October 25, 2008 9:34 AM
rik wrote:
You tried it with one verse, imagine doing it like an assembly line. I would have to agree, without a conscience effort to apply the information it will not sink in. Reply to this
October 25, 2008 9:36 AM
Johnbob wrote:
You are right in saying that we could take each verse and get something out of it. Great points about scribing something vs. living it. That is what the pharisees were condemned for.
The verse that struck me was vs. 12 -- Like an earring of gold or an ornament of fine gold is a wise man's rebuke to a listening ear. I realize this is a 'dangerous' topic. When is the last time I was rebuked? And when is the last time I gave a rebuke? I think of some rebukes that I received that, looking back, were really uncalled for. I didn't give out too many that I recall. Only one comes to mind that was a bit harsh, though there might be more that I am unaware of. This and other proverbs say that rebukes are absolutely necessary. However, given the past regarding the icoc, it was unfortunately not based on wisdom or love but on authority and a particular agenda. The new testament says the bible is useful for correcting and rebuking - so not just teaching someone a truth, but rebuking them if necessary. I think it helpful if you have a relationship with that person - like on Good Will Hunting (good movie except for the cursing) where Chuckie Sullivan rebukes Will Hunting because he is not using his talents (can't repeat the language, but he lovingly says he is going to kill Will if Will is still working that construction job...) Don't we really long for relationships that are so real that we can rebuke each other when needed and still be friends? Jesus also rebuked, but then said 'O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, if only I could gather you as a hen gathers her chicks... Anyway, those are my thoughts on this topic - I definitely don't want to condone the harshness of the past - that was wrong, but the Bible says that there are times and situations where a rebuke is exactly what is needed. I am sure Same has some military examples an I have some coaching examples where this was true - how much more when it is done correctly within the church. If I stirred up too many bad memories or anything like that, then I apologize. Reply to this
October 26, 2008 4:11 PM
joe wrote:
And yes you did stur up some painful memories Johnbob. The good side though...His power was made perfect in our weaknesses. I, and the famiily, wouldn't have the strengths and ...if we hadn't experienced the "bad" advice. Iron still succeeded in sharpening iron - we didn't give up inspite of the "stuff" that was going on in the body of Christ. Reply to this
October 25, 2008 8:18 AM
Sam wrote:
but to also spend time on one or two verses and explain what you got out of them. This is what we normally do on this blog, I know, but I wanted to reemphasize it only because I want to ensure that you actually DO learn a lot more by studying a lot less (in volume, not substance).
No, I don't think the men of Hezekiah learned a tremendous amount from simply doing their copying job....now, if they took the time to re-read what they had written and proofed, and took the time to try to understand it, then maybe, just maybe, they did learn something. But like them, a lot of the time, we too spend a lot of time doing something 'to get it done as a chore' (some have confessed that they have done this blogging with those feelings at times), rather than to spend the time in enjoyment, the enjoyment of being enlightened by the the magical, yet mysterical, and even wondrous, Word of God.
So, if you have not already done so, dig in, and dig deep.
Enjoy your quiet time and this weekend. Reply to this
October 25, 2008 9:17 AM
Rich wrote:
Mac - great insight today. I tried what you said and I remembered basically nothing from what I wrote down (I did not make any mistakes like you did, so I actually remembered even less - I was too busy bloating over the fact that I did not make a mistake!). Yesterday you said to Johnbob that you could barely remember what you did 2 days ago, much less so much detail of events that happened in his life "decades" ago!
But that is the case with most of us. We do remember things that are important to us and/or that we do everyday. Like, do you ever forget where you work and go to the wrong building in the morning? Do you ever forget where you live? Do you ever forget which key starts your car engine? Do you ever forget how to button your shirt or which side the zipper goes on when you put on your pants? If you start from here, you can come up with a huge list of things that you could not possibly imagine forgetting. However, would scripture verses be in that group? There are very few for me - and I am trying to memorize a chapter in Proverbs as you all know!!! How about you? How many verses from Proverbs are so ingrained in your daily thought that you can state them from memory. We have read Proverbs multiple times now (I have read through it 4 times since joining the blog and I know you guys read a few times before that). There is a verse in James that we should all MEMORIZE and perhaps consider every morning before we read the Bible (James 1: 22-25):
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it — he will be blessed in what he does."
Amazing promise here - he will be blessed in what he does! I want to be blessed. How about you? Reply to this
October 25, 2008 9:24 AM
Rich wrote:
Verse 4: "Remove the dross from the silver, and out comes material for the silversmith."
We are like silver to God (who is the silversmith). But we have "dross" in us. Dross is defined as: (1) Waste or impure matter; (2) The scum that forms on the surface of molten metal as a result of oxidation; (3) Worthless, commonplace, or trivial matter.
With our "dross" in place, we are of limited use to God. But if the dross is removed, we become "material" that can be shaped and molded by God into something beautiful and useful.
We need to all work hard to remove the dross from our lives. I know what my dross is. What about you? Reply to this
October 25, 2008 9:40 AM
Johnbob wrote:
Aaah. Thanks for bringing this scripture to light. What a great analogy. I have had scum on me spiritualy speaking (and sometimes physically). Reply to this
October 25, 2008 10:12 AM
rik wrote:
19 Like a bad tooth or a lame foot is reliance on the unfaithful in times of trouble.
It is good to know who is faithful to God and who is not. Even at church we must be able to discern who will handle our 'trouble' and who cant. If you share your sorrows to the 'unfaithful' and expect assistance you are a fool. A tooth ache is quite painful, and a lame foot will slow your progress. so I would say it actually caused more problems if you give out personal issues to the wrong people.
Is is good to have brothers like you guys. Reply to this
Do you think the men of Hezekiah kning of Judah, as it says in verse 1, learned anything when they were copying these proverbs spoken/recorded by Solomon? I would suspect a little, but I would wager 'not much'. As a scribe, you are not required to understand what you are copying, but simply to copy it as error-free as you possibly can. Here, I want you to try it....go to the next chapter (26) and type into this blog, verse 1...go ahead. I will also. "Like snow in summer or rain in harvest, hnor is not fitting for a fool."
OOPs, I made a mistake...I misspelled 'honor'. I wonder if the proofreader of the works by these men of Hezekiah caught all errors they made!
Anyway, now that I have simply copied that verse down, TRYING to pay attention to spellings and not missing any words, my thoughts were on getting it right--doing my job---, not analyzing what was being said. And be honest, you also probably didn't get anything out of that verse (except maybe you did only to try to disprove my theory).
This is the same, that is, the same results---you don't get much out of these proverbs of Solomon---, if you only read through them. No, it takes time to analyze what you read, in order to understand them. You should try to understand what the writer was saying when he wrote these, keeping in mind the time period, the political and environmental atmosphere and the worries and highlights of the era. Only then, can you fully understand what the proverb is to mean to us in 2008. It usually takes reading a proverb over and over to 'get something out of it'.
The first time I read today's chapter, hardly nothing came to mind, so, of course, I started over. And what better place to spend some time is in the very first proverb. (As this chapter has 28 verses in it, maybe we ought to try to do just one VERSE a day in Feb 2009.)
We should understand who Solomon was---a person who received DWFG (Direct Wisdom From God). He was, and remains, probably the wisest man ever to walk this earth (except Jesus). As copied by 'the men of Hezekiah' in verse 11---"A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.", or in other words, PRICELESS. What Solomon originally penned, and copied by men (and machine) over the centuries, is priceless to us today.
This direct wisdom Solomon got is being shared to us today. In verse 27a, he wrote that 'it is not good to eat too much honey'. This could be likened to 'reading too much of the Bible at one time'. WHAT? Blasphemous, you say? No, what I am saying, is if you spend time in only a very few verses (thoughts, stories, events), you will learn more than simply reading (skimming really) a whole bunch of God's Word at one time.
That having been said, I hope you read by entire blog today, as I sometimes get 'lengthy'. That is because I do not have the wisdom of Solomon, and can't simply make my points without attempting to fully explain them.
I challenge you today, to not only copy 26:1
Reply to this
You tried it with one verse, imagine doing it like an assembly line. I would have to agree, without a conscience effort to apply the information it will not sink in.
Reply to this
You are right in saying that we could take each verse and get something out of it. Great points about scribing something vs. living it. That is what the pharisees were condemned for.
The verse that struck me was vs. 12 -- Like an earring of gold or an ornament of fine gold is a wise man's rebuke to a listening ear.
I realize this is a 'dangerous' topic. When is the last time I was rebuked? And when is the last time I gave a rebuke? I think of some rebukes that I received that, looking back, were really uncalled for. I didn't give out too many that I recall. Only one comes to mind that was a bit harsh, though there might be more that I am unaware of. This and other proverbs say that rebukes are absolutely necessary. However, given the past regarding the icoc, it was unfortunately not based on wisdom or love but on authority and a particular agenda. The new testament says the bible is useful for correcting and rebuking - so not just teaching someone a truth, but rebuking them if necessary. I think it helpful if you have a relationship with that person - like on Good Will Hunting (good movie except for the cursing) where Chuckie Sullivan rebukes Will Hunting because he is not using his talents (can't repeat the language, but he lovingly says he is going to kill Will if Will is still working that construction job...) Don't we really long for relationships that are so real that we can rebuke each other when needed and still be friends?
Jesus also rebuked, but then said 'O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, if only I could gather you as a hen gathers her chicks... Anyway, those are my thoughts on this topic - I definitely don't want to condone the harshness of the past - that was wrong, but the Bible says that there are times and situations where a rebuke is exactly what is needed. I am sure Same has some military examples an I have some coaching examples where this was true - how much more when it is done correctly within the church. If I stirred up too many bad memories or anything like that, then I apologize.
Reply to this
LOL - This is good stuff SAM.
Reply to this
And yes you did stur up some painful memories Johnbob. The good side though...His power was made perfect in our weaknesses. I, and the famiily, wouldn't have the strengths and ...if we hadn't experienced the "bad" advice. Iron still succeeded in sharpening iron - we didn't give up inspite of the "stuff" that was going on in the body of Christ.
Reply to this
but to also spend time on one or two verses and explain what you got out of them. This is what we normally do on this blog, I know, but I wanted to reemphasize it only because I want to ensure that you actually DO learn a lot more by studying a lot less (in volume, not substance).
No, I don't think the men of Hezekiah learned a tremendous amount from simply doing their copying job....now, if they took the time to re-read what they had written and proofed, and took the time to try to understand it, then maybe, just maybe, they did learn something. But like them, a lot of the time, we too spend a lot of time doing something 'to get it done as a chore' (some have confessed that they have done this blogging with those feelings at times), rather than to spend the time in enjoyment, the enjoyment of being enlightened by the the magical, yet mysterical, and even wondrous, Word of God.
So, if you have not already done so, dig in, and dig deep.
Enjoy your quiet time and this weekend.
Reply to this
Mac - great insight today. I tried what you said and I remembered basically nothing from what I wrote down (I did not make any mistakes like you did, so I actually remembered even less - I was too busy bloating over the fact that I did not make a mistake!). Yesterday you said to Johnbob that you could barely remember what you did 2 days ago, much less so much detail of events that happened in his life "decades" ago!
But that is the case with most of us. We do remember things that are important to us and/or that we do everyday. Like, do you ever forget where you work and go to the wrong building in the morning? Do you ever forget where you live? Do you ever forget which key starts your car engine? Do you ever forget how to button your shirt or which side the zipper goes on when you put on your pants? If you start from here, you can come up with a huge list of things that you could not possibly imagine forgetting. However, would scripture verses be in that group? There are very few for me - and I am trying to memorize a chapter in Proverbs as you all know!!! How about you? How many verses from Proverbs are so ingrained in your daily thought that you can state them from memory. We have read Proverbs multiple times now (I have read through it 4 times since joining the blog and I know you guys read a few times before that). There is a verse in James that we should all MEMORIZE and perhaps consider every morning before we read the Bible (James 1: 22-25):
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it — he will be blessed in what he does."
Amazing promise here - he will be blessed in what he does! I want to be blessed. How about you?
Reply to this
Verse 4: "Remove the dross from the silver, and out comes material for the silversmith."
We are like silver to God (who is the silversmith). But we have "dross" in us. Dross is defined as: (1) Waste or impure matter; (2) The scum that forms on the surface of molten metal as a result of oxidation; (3) Worthless, commonplace, or trivial matter.
With our "dross" in place, we are of limited use to God. But if the dross is removed, we become "material" that can be shaped and molded by God into something beautiful and useful.
We need to all work hard to remove the dross from our lives. I know what my dross is. What about you?
Reply to this
Aaah. Thanks for bringing this scripture to light. What a great analogy. I have had scum on me spiritualy speaking (and sometimes physically).
Reply to this
19 Like a bad tooth or a lame foot is reliance on the unfaithful in times of trouble.
It is good to know who is faithful to God and who is not. Even at church we must be able to discern who will handle our 'trouble' and who cant. If you share your sorrows to the 'unfaithful' and expect assistance you are a fool.
A tooth ache is quite painful, and a lame foot will slow your progress. so
I would say it actually caused more problems if you give out personal issues to the wrong people.
Is is good to have brothers like you guys.
Reply to this