September 28, 2008 7:15 AM
Sam wrote:
Please humor me for three days....for in three days we will return to a book of the Bible you all like....Proverbs (1 Oct for 31 days). But, in the meantime, we have three days 'to kill' and I thought it would be interesting to look at a book we seldom even glance at and spend a few minutes every day, for all three (after all, it only has three chapters). So, what do we know about Joel...let me set the scene by providing a biography of him, and that might help us understand what he has written here. Brought to you courtesy of the internet: Joel, son of Pethuel, was a native of Judah. He was well-educated and he was a gifted poet and one of the books of the Bible is named after him. The Bible's book of Joel has two main parts. The first describes a locust plague and a drought. The second is more apocalyptic. Joel sees in both the locust plague and drought the judgment of God. Just as the locusts devoured the land, so will the land be devoured by enemy armies, unless the nation repents of its sins. The Lord promises the people who repent, whether they are Jewish or non-Jewish, an ultimate deliverance from disaster. Joel also warns punishment against the nations who have wronged the Jews, specifically, Tyre, Sidon, the Philistines, Egypt and Edom. Joel mentions the great and terrible "day of the Lord" which is in the future, but everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. In chapter 2, Joel makes the famous prediction of the Lord "After I have poured out My rains again, I will pour out My Spirit upon all of you! Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, and your young men see visions." The theme of Joel's message is one of coming judgment if Jerusalem does not repent. Joel also speaks of coming prosperity and final blessing, if the people respond in faith. Joel, means "Ya is God", and his book is the second of the twelve minor prophets. Okat, that's a brief history of the man, now let's 'attack', like locusts, the first chapter. It seems nothing is going right for the Jews. Their farms are all ruined, locusts are everywhere, figs can't be found, nor apples, pomegranates nor wine. All their staples have been taken from them. When that happened, Joel demanded that everyone on repent and cry out to the Lord. Is that what we do when things get rough for us? Well, most certainly. We may not wear a coarse cloth of goat or camel's hair or of flax, hemp, or cotton (sackcloth) but we most certainly do 'cry out' to God in our prayers. The sackcloth was a symbol for repentance from sin, something we don't physically wear, but we should be 'doing'. Repenting from sin BEFORE crying out to God is essential. You all remember the teachings about the wall of sin, hiding us from God. God listens to righteous men (James 5:16). When things go bad for you, do you first repent from whatever sin you are in before praying? You should. "To you, O Lord, I call." Reply to this
September 28, 2008 7:48 AM
Rich wrote:
Does God really send plagues, defeat in war, job loss, illness, financial market meltdowns, ... because we have sinned? The theme here seems to be that the people sinned and therefore God sent locusts to destroy the land and to cause the people to suffer.
Or do things like this just naturally happen and because they happen they remind us of God? Joel uses this occasion to tell the people to ask God for deliverance. He tells them about the suffering they feel and says that God is the answer.
I believe the second above is correct. I do not see that God is ACTIVELY causing disease and destruction to harm us, even if harming us is what it takes to get us to repent. The other day I had the idea in my head that God has an umbrella over me to protect my family and me from harm. Every so often (usually because of my sin or lack of attention to God) that umbrella is moved a little to the side and some raindrops hit us. The raindrops hurt but they usually get my attention. They cause me to examine myself, to wake up.
What do you guys think? Does God cause calamity or does he move the umbrella or something else? This gets at the name of a book (that I have heard of but have never read) called Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People? Reply to this
September 28, 2008 8:06 AM
Sam wrote:
To Rich......I think God DOES "send calamity" to us by ALLOWING it to happen. He ALLOWED His very own SON to DIE..do you not think he would hesitate to 'kill' one of us? I like your umbrella analogy....it is like a protective barrier around (on top of) you. This is likened to righteousness. We get a bit off the path, even slightly, God is there to remind us (with adversity) that only He is in control and wants us to maintain our righteousness. God let bad fortune fall upon King David after his run in with Bathsheba, to remind him of His power and the lack of righteousness of David. (Bathsheba should have used a big beach umbrella directed toward David's windows when she was sun bathing!) Envision an invisible shield around you (much like a force field in the early Star Trek series). This shield is supported by your righteoousness. Start deliberately sinning, and holes will appear in this invisible shield that God 'sees' immediately. If you carry enough umbrellas with you, you can quickly cover up those holes. This is what Jesus is...your umbrella(s). Bad things happen to all people, as none are completely righteous. ANd who is defining 'good' in the name of that book? Man, obviously. God's definition of 'good' is a bit stronger. Even Jesus said that no one is good, only the Father. So, if we are not 'good', don't we deserve raindrops on our heads? The goal is to keep that to a minimum, always crying out to Jesus in repentance (you know, wearing your IKE Seed bag (only Rik will understand that one, being from Vermont) as sackcloth). IF we were perfect (good), then Jesus wouldn't be needed, but as we are not good, then He is. Use Him. Oh, by the way, note that 'good' has two o's (oh-oh), while God only has one (Oh???). Reply to this
September 28, 2008 8:19 AM
rik wrote:
Ironically enough I read this chapter to joel just the other day. Lots of weeping and morning for there sins. I know the new testament does not require us to weep and morn, but it does require us to have an indignation about sin and a longing to clear ourselves of sin. Do we have Godly sorrow or worldly sorrow? Reply to this
Please humor me for three days....for in three days we will return to a book of the Bible you all like....Proverbs (1 Oct for 31 days). But, in the meantime, we have three days 'to kill' and I thought it would be interesting to look at a book we seldom even glance at and spend a few minutes every day, for all three (after all, it only has three chapters).
So, what do we know about Joel...let me set the scene by providing a biography of him, and that might help us understand what he has written here.
Brought to you courtesy of the internet:
Joel, son of Pethuel, was a native of Judah. He was well-educated and he was a gifted poet and one of the books of the Bible is named after him. The Bible's book of Joel has two main parts. The first describes a locust plague and a drought. The second is more apocalyptic. Joel sees in both the locust plague and drought the judgment of God. Just as the locusts devoured the land, so will the land be devoured by enemy armies, unless the nation repents of its sins. The Lord promises the people who repent, whether they are Jewish or non-Jewish, an ultimate deliverance from disaster.
Joel also warns punishment against the nations who have wronged the Jews, specifically, Tyre, Sidon, the Philistines, Egypt and Edom. Joel mentions the great and terrible "day of the Lord" which is in the future, but everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
In chapter 2, Joel makes the famous prediction of the Lord "After I have poured out My rains again, I will pour out My Spirit upon all of you! Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, and your young men see visions."
The theme of Joel's message is one of coming judgment if Jerusalem does not repent. Joel also speaks of coming prosperity and final blessing, if the people respond in faith.
Joel, means "Ya is God", and his book is the second of the twelve minor prophets.
Okat, that's a brief history of the man, now let's 'attack', like locusts, the first chapter. It seems nothing is going right for the Jews. Their farms are all ruined, locusts are everywhere, figs can't be found, nor apples, pomegranates nor wine. All their staples have been taken from them. When that happened, Joel demanded that everyone on repent and cry out to the Lord.
Is that what we do when things get rough for us? Well, most certainly. We may not wear a coarse cloth of goat or camel's hair or of flax, hemp, or cotton (sackcloth) but we most certainly do 'cry out' to God in our prayers. The sackcloth was a symbol for repentance from sin, something we don't physically wear, but we should be 'doing'. Repenting from sin BEFORE crying out to God is essential. You all remember the teachings about the wall of sin, hiding us from God. God listens to righteous men (James 5:16). When things go bad for you, do you first repent from whatever sin you are in before praying? You should. "To you, O Lord, I call."
Reply to this
Does God really send plagues, defeat in war, job loss, illness, financial market meltdowns, ... because we have sinned? The theme here seems to be that the people sinned and therefore God sent locusts to destroy the land and to cause the people to suffer.
Or do things like this just naturally happen and because they happen they remind us of God? Joel uses this occasion to tell the people to ask God for deliverance. He tells them about the suffering they feel and says that God is the answer.
I believe the second above is correct. I do not see that God is ACTIVELY causing disease and destruction to harm us, even if harming us is what it takes to get us to repent. The other day I had the idea in my head that God has an umbrella over me to protect my family and me from harm. Every so often (usually because of my sin or lack of attention to God) that umbrella is moved a little to the side and some raindrops hit us. The raindrops hurt but they usually get my attention. They cause me to examine myself, to wake up.
What do you guys think? Does God cause calamity or does he move the umbrella or something else? This gets at the name of a book (that I have heard of but have never read) called Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?
Reply to this
To Rich......I think God DOES "send calamity" to us by ALLOWING it to happen. He ALLOWED His very own SON to DIE..do you not think he would hesitate to 'kill' one of us? I like your umbrella analogy....it is like a protective barrier around (on top of) you. This is likened to righteousness. We get a bit off the path, even slightly, God is there to remind us (with adversity) that only He is in control and wants us to maintain our righteousness. God let bad fortune fall upon King David after his run in with Bathsheba, to remind him of His power and the lack of righteousness of David. (Bathsheba should have used a big beach umbrella directed toward David's windows when she was sun bathing!)
Envision an invisible shield around you (much like a force field in the early Star Trek series). This shield is supported by your righteoousness. Start deliberately sinning, and holes will appear in this invisible shield that God 'sees' immediately. If you carry enough umbrellas with you, you can quickly cover up those holes. This is what Jesus is...your umbrella(s). Bad things happen to all people, as none are completely righteous. ANd who is defining 'good' in the name of that book? Man, obviously. God's definition of 'good' is a bit stronger. Even Jesus said that no one is good, only the Father. So, if we are not 'good', don't we deserve raindrops on our heads? The goal is to keep that to a minimum, always crying out to Jesus in repentance (you know, wearing your IKE Seed bag (only Rik will understand that one, being from Vermont) as sackcloth). IF we were perfect (good), then Jesus wouldn't be needed, but as we are not good, then He is. Use Him. Oh, by the way, note that 'good' has two o's (oh-oh), while God only has one (Oh???).
Reply to this
different era in VT, I have no idea what you are reffering to!
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Ironically enough I read this chapter to joel just the other day. Lots of weeping and morning for there sins. I know the new testament does not require us to weep and morn, but it does require us to have an indignation about sin and a longing to clear ourselves of sin. Do we have Godly sorrow or worldly sorrow?
Reply to this