August 24, 2008 8:04 AM
Sam wrote:
Interesting that Moses/God/someone wrote that 'anyone who was willing' was to bring things to the altar as an offering for the Lord. And then in verse 21 it said that 'everyone who WAS willing and whose heart moved him came and brought an offering'. Even today, God is not DEMANDING we give tithes and offerings, but is patiently waiting for our hears to be moved so that we will be willing to do so. God doesn't DEMAND that we love Him, either. Much like you can't demand that your children or spouse love YOU. God rewarded Bezalel by making him a skilled craftsman. God has done the same for us....he has given us certain skills even though we still don't take the first fruits of our wages and offer them to Him. God is patient with us, for sure...but I just wonder HOW patient. Reply to this
August 24, 2008 2:43 PM
Rich wrote:
Mac - great observation that God gives the people a choice. They can give if they want - if they are willing. I often wonder if I do things because I am willing (I want to do them) or because it is habit or I believe it is expected or maybe even I think it might impress someone else. How do you really test your heart? That is, how does one make sure that what he does is out of a pure heart? For much of what I do, if I think about it long enough, I can question my deepest motivation.
For example, I give money to church every week. Why? I want to believe that I am in some small way showing God that I appreciate all that he has given me. However, what I give is a mere token compared to what God has given me. And I am sure that if I was in some way challenged by God to give all that I have (like the rich young man in Matt 19), I would not be able to do it. I do not have enough faith and I do not have a pure enough heart. So, why do I give? Is it because it makes me feel good? Because others may see me put a check in the plate? Because I want those who record the finances of the church to see a check from me every week? Or because I want God to give me more? Thinking about this, it is really hard to obey Matt 6:3 - "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." It is also heart to truly discern what my heart is after.
I want to have a pure heart and I want to do things for the right reasons. Is this enough for God? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Reply to this
August 24, 2008 2:56 PM
Rich wrote:
One more thought for today. I wonder what the people who gave and did the work thought about those who did not contribute? Were there hard feelings? Did they judge? Were people who did not give treated different from those who did?
Since God gave the people a choice (do this if you are willing, if you want to do it), how could God "bless" those who gave any more than he did (or did not) those who did not give. Correct? Maybe the "giving" was (is) merely a way for the people (us) to see and test their (our) own hearts. Maybe it is the same for us. God freely gave us an incredible gift (and he keeps giving to us everyday). He tells us what he wants us to do, but I think he gives us free choice in the matter. That is, God forgives us if we express our gratitude or not. There are no levels of forgiveness, are there? As I read, when I got baptized, God forgave my sins past, present and in the future. There was not a condition on this promise that says 'only if you go to church' or 'only if you give money' or 'only if you share your faith' or ' only if you _____________________ (fill in the blank).' Reply to this
August 24, 2008 6:34 PM
Sam wrote:
Amazing! First time I ever saw the 'above security code' a second time! Maybe I ought to have bought that lottery ticket today. (How do I know that sec code was used before?--As I typed it in, a drop down shows me previous ones used, and this one was in the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYWAY....to Rich...I don't know. The heart is a strange thing, an emotion we will never know how to truly control. Only Jesus could do that...we are so imperfect, no matter if you tithe or not, it is hard to imagine God continuing to forgive us. The one thing we let ourselves get caught up in, I believe, is to think that God WILL love us more if we do more for Him. That isn't so.....(as far as salvation is concerned,that is). It is, however, or can be, that is, related to how much God blesses us in our current lives here on earth. You have to give to get is a common saying, and it applies to loving God as well. We are saved, no doubt, but how 'good' of a life do you want here on earth? Give, God says through Malachi, and 'test Me'. Reply to this
August 24, 2008 11:03 PM
Anonymous wrote:
I think you know when it is from the heart. We give because we want to not because we have to. We are very fortunate to be whee we are in the world, to have what we have, and to be able to do the things that we do. I think when we give, in reference to don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, it is not your physical hands but more the people around you. We don't give and then boast about it, we just give. Our giving is also not just in monetary gifts either. Our time to some people is more valuable than money will ever be, time with a friend who is down and troubled, time sharing our faith, time. I give when I can because I want to. If you want to see if it is about your name on a check, put in cash. If you think it is that other people see you and that is impressive, do it before service with the ushers in private. God knows our hearts and He will judge accordingly, all we can do is what we think is right with not motive or agenda to see what we will get from what we gave, be it time or money or whatever. Reply to this
August 24, 2008 11:50 PM
Tony wrote:
Ezekiel 36: 'I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. I WANT THAT HEART!!! Reply to this
Interesting that Moses/God/someone wrote that 'anyone who was willing' was to bring things to the altar as an offering for the Lord. And then in verse 21 it said that 'everyone who WAS willing and whose heart moved him came and brought an offering'. Even today, God is not DEMANDING we give tithes and offerings, but is patiently waiting for our hears to be moved so that we will be willing to do so. God doesn't DEMAND that we love Him, either. Much like you can't demand that your children or spouse love YOU. God rewarded Bezalel by making him a skilled craftsman. God has done the same for us....he has given us certain skills even though we still don't take the first fruits of our wages and offer them to Him. God is patient with us, for sure...but I just wonder HOW patient.
Reply to this
Mac - great observation that God gives the people a choice. They can give if they want - if they are willing. I often wonder if I do things because I am willing (I want to do them) or because it is habit or I believe it is expected or maybe even I think it might impress someone else. How do you really test your heart? That is, how does one make sure that what he does is out of a pure heart? For much of what I do, if I think about it long enough, I can question my deepest motivation.
For example, I give money to church every week. Why? I want to believe that I am in some small way showing God that I appreciate all that he has given me. However, what I give is a mere token compared to what God has given me. And I am sure that if I was in some way challenged by God to give all that I have (like the rich young man in Matt 19), I would not be able to do it. I do not have enough faith and I do not have a pure enough heart. So, why do I give? Is it because it makes me feel good? Because others may see me put a check in the plate? Because I want those who record the finances of the church to see a check from me every week? Or because I want God to give me more? Thinking about this, it is really hard to obey Matt 6:3 - "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." It is also heart to truly discern what my heart is after.
I want to have a pure heart and I want to do things for the right reasons. Is this enough for God? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?
Reply to this
One more thought for today. I wonder what the people who gave and did the work thought about those who did not contribute? Were there hard feelings? Did they judge? Were people who did not give treated different from those who did?
Since God gave the people a choice (do this if you are willing, if you want to do it), how could God "bless" those who gave any more than he did (or did not) those who did not give. Correct? Maybe the "giving" was (is) merely a way for the people (us) to see and test their (our) own hearts. Maybe it is the same for us. God freely gave us an incredible gift (and he keeps giving to us everyday). He tells us what he wants us to do, but I think he gives us free choice in the matter. That is, God forgives us if we express our gratitude or not. There are no levels of forgiveness, are there? As I read, when I got baptized, God forgave my sins past, present and in the future. There was not a condition on this promise that says 'only if you go to church' or 'only if you give money' or 'only if you share your faith' or ' only if you _____________________ (fill in the blank).'
Reply to this
Amazing! First time I ever saw the 'above security code' a second time! Maybe I ought to have bought that lottery ticket today. (How do I know that sec code was used before?--As I typed it in, a drop down shows me previous ones used, and this one was in the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYWAY....to Rich...I don't know. The heart is a strange thing, an emotion we will never know how to truly control. Only Jesus could do that...we are so imperfect, no matter if you tithe or not, it is hard to imagine God continuing to forgive us. The one thing we let ourselves get caught up in, I believe, is to think that God WILL love us more if we do more for Him. That isn't so.....(as far as salvation is concerned,that is). It is, however, or can be, that is, related to how much God blesses us in our current lives here on earth. You have to give to get is a common saying, and it applies to loving God as well. We are saved, no doubt, but how 'good' of a life do you want here on earth? Give, God says through Malachi, and 'test Me'.
Reply to this
I think you know when it is from the heart. We give because we want to not because we have to. We are very fortunate to be whee we are in the world, to have what we have, and to be able to do the things that we do. I think when we give, in reference to don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, it is not your physical hands but more the people around you. We don't give and then boast about it, we just give. Our giving is also not just in monetary gifts either. Our time to some people is more valuable than money will ever be, time with a friend who is down and troubled, time sharing our faith, time. I give when I can because I want to. If you want to see if it is about your name on a check, put in cash. If you think it is that other people see you and that is impressive, do it before service with the ushers in private. God knows our hearts and He will judge accordingly, all we can do is what we think is right with not motive or agenda to see what we will get from what we gave, be it time or money or whatever.
Reply to this
Ezekiel 36: 'I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. I WANT THAT HEART!!!
Reply to this