December 30, 2007 5:24 PM
Rich wrote:
Went to ACOC @ Cobb today for church. Not sure how I feel about it exactly. Mixed feelings. The guy who did communion read from I John 4. It and some other things got me thinking.
First, does I John 4: 2-3 apply to only when John was writing or today? If I am not mistaken, when John wrote this letter, the idea that Jesus came in the flesh was a point of contention. There was some debate about whether it was possible for God to take the form of a man. I think that many people at that time argued that Jesus was a spirit. Today, most everyone seems to accept the idea that Jesus came to the earth and lived as a man. Problem today is that many do not think of him as being God. They think he was just a good man (like any of the other prophets or religious leaders). But John says that Jesus was much more than that. Jesus was God. Jesus had eternal life (forwards and backwards as I said a day or two ago). Not sure how we recognize false spirits today.
Second, I believe that I am just beginning to understand I John 4: 16-18. I grew up in a fire and brimstone sort of religion. Much of what motivated me was fear. I was afraid that if I did not pray before I ate that I might choke on my food (God would make me choke). I was afraid that if I did something wrong (sin), there would be some consequence. I struggle with this today. Fear that if I do not go to church on Sunday, God will punish me by causing problems in the family or with my job or finances or something else. Fear that if I do not have a QT, God will punish me. Something will go wrong. I have struggled with a notion that my wife's illnesses are my fault. That if I was more consistent in doing X, Y and Z, she would not be sick.
Now, it may be true that if I had a closer relationship with God over the past many years, things would be different. But, it is not a matter of the things I do, but of the love I have for God. I John 4:16 says that God is love and that I can RELY on the love that God has for me. And verse 18 says there is no fear in love and that God's love is not based on punishment. I take immense comfort in this. And if I can ever break away from the fear of punishment religion that I grew up with, I find great security in this. God loves me period. If I want to experience the fullness of his love, I need to learn how to love him back. I need to do right, not sin, go to church, have QTs because of love, not because of fear of punishment. I have begun to notice this more in myself. I have begun to see a desire to do right, not because I fear punishment, but because I want to grow closer to God. I think the distinction is subtle but very, very important. I am not even sure that I can exactly explain it or put my finger on it precisely, but I know that how I feel now is very different than how I have ever felt about God. I know that much more is in line with I John 4 than ever in the past. Reply to this
December 30, 2007 7:28 PM
Sam wrote:
This chapter, 4 in 1st John, is basically talking about 2 issues....one, false prophets (and their danger) and two, love (both God's and ours for others). Socorro and I went to New Life Christian Church today and I must say, the message was very good, and talked about love in a different way....gratitude. We love others, because we are gacious for their friendship. We show ingratitude when we don't love those around us. We met Junior Miller and his wife, Becky there. Junior is an usher, and is going to be appointed an elder next Sunday. I'm going there to support him (and to worship God, of course). Probably will start going there for my Sunday worship. Met the preacher...a younger fella...fairly personable, and pretty good at the podium. Of course, I was there with a critical eye....which I shouldn't be...should be there to solely worship and then fellowship. We are going to a family group (they call them connection groups) this Thursday evening at 7 here in Douglasville. Probably will start getting more active in that organization. I was watching, as I said, with a critical eye, to make sure that the preacher was not a false prophet, taking heed of what I read this morning in this chapter. And I found, at first glance, that he seems devoted to Christ. Heard they have a great kid's ministry. Rich....it has always been difficult to do the old man-God thing with Jesus....I kinda think God is within each of us BECAUSE of what Jesus did...removed our sins (at least paid for them). So, hope all had a great day, and probably won't see you until next year. Happy New Year.
Went to ACOC @ Cobb today for church. Not sure how I feel about it exactly. Mixed feelings. The guy who did communion read from I John 4. It and some other things got me thinking.
First, does I John 4: 2-3 apply to only when John was writing or today? If I am not mistaken, when John wrote this letter, the idea that Jesus came in the flesh was a point of contention. There was some debate about whether it was possible for God to take the form of a man. I think that many people at that time argued that Jesus was a spirit. Today, most everyone seems to accept the idea that Jesus came to the earth and lived as a man. Problem today is that many do not think of him as being God. They think he was just a good man (like any of the other prophets or religious leaders). But John says that Jesus was much more than that. Jesus was God. Jesus had eternal life (forwards and backwards as I said a day or two ago). Not sure how we recognize false spirits today.
Second, I believe that I am just beginning to understand I John 4: 16-18. I grew up in a fire and brimstone sort of religion. Much of what motivated me was fear. I was afraid that if I did not pray before I ate that I might choke on my food (God would make me choke). I was afraid that if I did something wrong (sin), there would be some consequence. I struggle with this today. Fear that if I do not go to church on Sunday, God will punish me by causing problems in the family or with my job or finances or something else. Fear that if I do not have a QT, God will punish me. Something will go wrong. I have struggled with a notion that my wife's illnesses are my fault. That if I was more consistent in doing X, Y and Z, she would not be sick.
Now, it may be true that if I had a closer relationship with God over the past many years, things would be different. But, it is not a matter of the things I do, but of the love I have for God. I John 4:16 says that God is love and that I can RELY on the love that God has for me. And verse 18 says there is no fear in love and that God's love is not based on punishment. I take immense comfort in this. And if I can ever break away from the fear of punishment religion that I grew up with, I find great security in this. God loves me period. If I want to experience the fullness of his love, I need to learn how to love him back. I need to do right, not sin, go to church, have QTs because of love, not because of fear of punishment. I have begun to notice this more in myself. I have begun to see a desire to do right, not because I fear punishment, but because I want to grow closer to God. I think the distinction is subtle but very, very important. I am not even sure that I can exactly explain it or put my finger on it precisely, but I know that how I feel now is very different than how I have ever felt about God. I know that much more is in line with I John 4 than ever in the past.
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This chapter, 4 in 1st John, is basically talking about 2 issues....one, false prophets (and their danger) and two, love (both God's and ours for others). Socorro and I went to New Life Christian Church today and I must say, the message was very good, and talked about love in a different way....gratitude. We love others, because we are gacious for their friendship. We show ingratitude when we don't love those around us.
We met Junior Miller and his wife, Becky there. Junior is an usher, and is going to be appointed an elder next Sunday. I'm going there to support him (and to worship God, of course). Probably will start going there for my Sunday worship. Met the preacher...a younger fella...fairly personable, and pretty good at the podium. Of course, I was there with a critical eye....which I shouldn't be...should be there to solely worship and then fellowship. We are going to a family group (they call them connection groups) this Thursday evening at 7 here in Douglasville. Probably will start getting more active in that organization. I was watching, as I said, with a critical eye, to make sure that the preacher was not a false prophet, taking heed of what I read this morning in this chapter. And I found, at first glance, that he seems devoted to Christ. Heard they have a great kid's ministry.
Rich....it has always been difficult to do the old man-God thing with Jesus....I kinda think God is within each of us BECAUSE of what Jesus did...removed our sins (at least paid for them). So, hope all had a great day, and probably won't see you until next year. Happy New Year.
mac
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