December 29, 2007 9:49 AM
Sam wrote:
Okay, this chapter seems to refute the idea that a person can ever get to heaven. We all know we are sinners, and that we keep on sinning, and asking for God for forgiveness because of our weaknesses. Yet, other Scriptures tell us over and over that confession to God will (once again) cleanse us of our sins. Here, however, John writes that no one who keeps on sinning is in Jesus and will not go to heaven. A definite Catch-22, if you see the dichotomy here. John says we have to get perfect and stay that way. I don't like this chapter. And if we don't LOVE, we HATE, and are MURDERERS???? I definitely don't like this chapter. The last part of the chapter I can go along with. I can believe in Christ;, however, to OBEY His commands is impossible at best, especially if we sin and then are always cut off. I don't get it. Any help here. I did not got to any other source---kinda wanted to know what you all thought first. Reply to this
December 29, 2007 2:25 PM
Rich wrote:
Verse 1: God has lavished (also translated as bestowed) his love on us, such love that he is proud to call us his children. Lavished is defined as to give in abundance. Bestow is defined as to present as a gift (with nothing expected in return). God has freely given his love to us and he is proud to call us (sinners as messed up as we are) his children. That is awesome. God does not just feel sorry for us. He wants us to be his sons and daughters. He wants us to be his family. And his gift comes without conditions. All we have to do is accept.
That leads to what Mac points out above. If the gift of God is free, what about this stuff of not sinning any more. Also, does this not conflict with chapter 1 that anyone who claims not to sin is a liar (i.e., a sinner). I too was confused by this part of chapter 3. It sounds contradictory.
Fact is, the whole issue of sin and salvation is difficult to figure out. I think Paul wrestled with this in Romans 7: "I do not understand what I do ...For what I want to do I do not do ... For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out." To Paul it is the struggle of the sinful nature (which we have as long as we live on earth) versus the spiritual nature. I think John is discussing much the same here. It is a contradiction of sorts. We are sinners. Jesus came to forgive us of our sins. If we accept Jesus, God accepts us as his children. But we continue to sin because that is the nature of man and of this world. How can God accept us as his children if we continue to sin? The only thing that makes sense to me is not the actual act of sin, but our attitude towards sin. I think John (and Paul) are speaking about our attitude, our conscience towards sin, not actual sin.
The Guzik commentary says the following: "a. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection. b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin."
He also says that Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. When we become christians, we become new creations (old nature replaced with new nature). As this new creature, we cannot be comfortable living in a state of habitual sin.
I have always struggled with these concepts but I think this is what God wants us to do - think! Reply to this
Okay, this chapter seems to refute the idea that a person can ever get to heaven. We all know we are sinners, and that we keep on sinning, and asking for God for forgiveness because of our weaknesses. Yet, other Scriptures tell us over and over that confession to God will (once again) cleanse us of our sins. Here, however, John writes that no one who keeps on sinning is in Jesus and will not go to heaven. A definite Catch-22, if you see the dichotomy here. John says we have to get perfect and stay that way. I don't like this chapter. And if we don't LOVE, we HATE, and are MURDERERS???? I definitely don't like this chapter. The last part of the chapter I can go along with. I can believe in Christ;, however, to OBEY His commands is impossible at best, especially if we sin and then are always cut off. I don't get it. Any help here. I did not got to any other source---kinda wanted to know what you all thought first.
Reply to this
Verse 1: God has lavished (also translated as bestowed) his love on us, such love that he is proud to call us his children. Lavished is defined as to give in abundance. Bestow is defined as to present as a gift (with nothing expected in return). God has freely given his love to us and he is proud to call us (sinners as messed up as we are) his children. That is awesome. God does not just feel sorry for us. He wants us to be his sons and daughters. He wants us to be his family. And his gift comes without conditions. All we have to do is accept.
That leads to what Mac points out above. If the gift of God is free, what about this stuff of not sinning any more. Also, does this not conflict with chapter 1 that anyone who claims not to sin is a liar (i.e., a sinner). I too was confused by this part of chapter 3. It sounds contradictory.
Fact is, the whole issue of sin and salvation is difficult to figure out. I think Paul wrestled with this in Romans 7: "I do not understand what I do ...For what I want to do I do not do ... For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out." To Paul it is the struggle of the sinful nature (which we have as long as we live on earth) versus the spiritual nature. I think John is discussing much the same here. It is a contradiction of sorts. We are sinners. Jesus came to forgive us of our sins. If we accept Jesus, God accepts us as his children. But we continue to sin because that is the nature of man and of this world. How can God accept us as his children if we continue to sin? The only thing that makes sense to me is not the actual act of sin, but our attitude towards sin. I think John (and Paul) are speaking about our attitude, our conscience towards sin, not actual sin.
The Guzik commentary says the following: "a. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense John uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar indicates John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6 indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin. John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection. b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John’s message is plain and consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style of habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A true Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin."
He also says that Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. When we become christians, we become new creations (old nature replaced with new nature). As this new creature, we cannot be comfortable living in a state of habitual sin.
I have always struggled with these concepts but I think this is what God wants us to do - think!
Reply to this
Thanks......makes MUCH more sense now. Also appreciate Guzik's commentary.
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