December 28, 2007 10:01 AM
Sam wrote:
TO TONY.....COPY THIS ENTIRE BOX INTO MEMORY, THEN PASTE IT INTO NOTEPAD OR OTHER SIMPLE TEXT EDITOR (NOT MS WORD)
December 28, 2007 10:25 AM
Rich wrote:
Interesting. We are covered by the blood of Jesus from all past, present and future sin if we confess our sins = see ourselves the way God sees us (through God's eyes). And although we are utterly sinful, sin is always right there with us, our good deeds = filthy rags, whoever does not do the good he should do sins (and others I cannot recall at the moment), God does not want us to sin. He wants us NOT to sin, to avoid sin, to be perfect as God is perfect. I think it is that God is perfect, totally and completely without sin. He absolutely and completely hates sin. Jesus had to die because of sin. Sin is utterly sinful (ugly, wicked, ungodly, unrighteous, sickening) to God. So, if we are to see ourselves through God's eyes to have continuous forgiveness, we will naturally hate sin as God hates sin. We will want to not sin.
This is very different from just waking every morning and saying "I am sorry for my sins, God forgive me." If instead we see ourselves as God sees us and understand the sacrafice that was necessary for our sin (Jesus on cross), we will want to not sin. I think that is what John is saying here. If we are really in touch with God and forgiveness, we will have an incredible desire to not sin. We will not achieve this is this life with our physical bodies, but we can have that mindset.
That is why daily QTs are so important. In spending quality time with God each day, we are able to better understand God and better able to see ourselves through his eyes. We grow closer to him. We are better able to understand his nature, we get glimpses of his mind, we see him and we see what he sees when he looks at us. Also, spending time each day reading about and praying to an entity that we cannot see or touch or directly hear takes great faith. Whenever we spend time reading and praying, we acknowledge that we believe that God is real. We display faith - as I recall, Jesus was amazed with 2 things. Someone's lack of faith and someone's faith. Let's amaze God with our faith that is relected in our daily devotion to God's word.
Concerning I John 2:2, Guzik says "Jesus is our defender, even when we sin now. God is not shocked by human behavior. He has seen it all in advance. He didn’t forgive you at one time to later say, “Look what they did now! If I would have known they would go and do that, I would have never forgiven them.” Knowing that my sin does not shock God makes it easier for me to confess my sin.
I feel compelled to say something today - especially to Tony and Rik. I John 2:9-11 talks about us loving one another. It tells us that there can be nothing between us. That we must work out our differences and that we must have fellowship with one another. None of us is perfect. We are all sinners. We are all the same in the eyes of Jesus. Each of us has our strengths and each of us has our struggles. God wants us to be united and to work together to learn from each other.
December 28, 2007 10:47 AM
Sam wrote:
The verse that stood out to me the most in this whole chapter was this one: "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did." As a Christian, I claim to live in him. However, to walk as Jesus did???--I fall FAR FAR short of that. As chapter 1 said that we all sin, and to deny that FACT is to be liar. I KNOW that I am sinful. Rich had some great insight into what it means to CONFESS. It is NOT simply, like he said, muttering 'please forgive me for my sin' each morning (noon, or night). No, it is far greater than that. Jesus didn't have to do that...he never sinned. Luck guy! It is extremely difficult to walk as Jesus did...he was able to resist temptation, I am not. Lust, greed, envy and pride still rummage freely in my soul. Yet, I call myself a Christian. Liar! To want not to sin, as Rich says, is important, no doubt; but the strength to do it is even more important. We will not succeed every time we are tempted (as we are basically bad people who do good once in a while---lesson from last Sunday's service in D-ville) like Jesus was able to. So, putting the two together (wanting not to sin, and being unable not to), we have a paradigm of sorts. Hence comes the promise of Jesus...do your best at being like him and you will be rewarded. This sounds like 'works', doesn't it? Well, yes it is, but not works like blogging daily, or sweeping church isles, or 'blessing' foods, or evangelizing (these things are done only if you desire to do them). The works that we must do are those of loving. Jesus is God. God is love. To be like Jesus is to love. To walk as Jesus did is simply to love others. All the rest (resistance to temptation, lessening of deliberate sin, and desires to do 'other works') will come automatically, IF we love one another. Reply to this
December 28, 2007 10:49 AM
Rich wrote:
That said, I have noticed a big drop off in contribution to the blog since Mac set out some challenges. I am not here to brag or set myself above anyone else. I have been absent from the blog off and on for weeks at a time. Truth be told, my absences correspond with no QTs. I am sinful, I struggle daily with being consistent, I set goals that get broken, I am like the seed planted in shallow ground all too much. My goal is to be consistent. I am working towards that and the blog has most certainly helped me to be more consistent than I have ever been before, but it is a struggle of massive proportions.
As Mac said, many excuses have been put forward. Some might be valid, but the pure truth is that my absences (my none QT days) are really due to laziness, lack of discipline, mismanagement of time, lack of love (for God and for you), selfishness ... SIN!!!
I want to challenge you (Tony and Rik) to not give up. The blog is our daily meeting place. I would like us to think of the blog as our fulfillment of Hebrews 10:25 (Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching). We all need inspiration and examples in our life. Mac has been an amazing example to me of consistency - something I struggle with. I have not had many (any) great spriritual examples in my life. I need others to show me the way, to challenge me, to make me a better person. I also need you guys to learn from your insights. You both have so much to contribute, to teach, to share. Each of us has unique gifts. We hurt each other by not taking part in the blog on a daily basis. I know that I need you guys and I am asking you to work at contributing so that I can learn and grow.
Also, I want to challenge both of you to talk with Mac if your feelings have been hurt. If you think his words were harsh or misspoken, let him know. If you hold something against me, let me know. We need one another and we need to work with one another not against one another. We need to be helpers to one another, not hindrances.
This is my challenge - it is made in love. If you take it differently, I am sorry that I am not able to express the way I always feel. Reread if necessary knowing that I am trying to say this in love. And, please let me know what you think. Reply to this
December 28, 2007 11:40 AM
Sam wrote:
Rich.....Tony is going through some pretty rugged stuff right now with his wife. It was a matter of time before he 'blew up'. It was expected. He holds things in because he doesn't want to offend others. He truly has a great heart for others---his actions (which you don't see often) are indicative of that. He is always helping people with myriads of tasks, asking nothing in return. So, when he 'quit' the other day, it didn't hurt me as much as I originally thought...he was just releasing pent up emotions. I am giving him time to work through them...he doesn't want my help as he doesn't think it will do any good (and it probably wouldn't). But, that's okay. This is the way I am displaying my love for Tony...I am giving him the space he wants. When he is ready, he will return...I don't want to rush him. And, as you say, we all have different strengths...his is not blogging...and that is FINE. I would LIKE him to do it more often, and be more consistent, as I think it helps him...but that is what "I" want...he sees it differently right now as he feels beat up on, because he 'didn't meet my expectations'. It'll be fine...he's a great friend...we won't let a squabble like this come between us. HOWEVER, THAT being said, you had some very good points in your blog about this today. I am learning to be less 'demanding' and less 'harsh' in my loving rebukes.....just a nature of mine having been ingrained in the Military to be a tough leader. One of my onion skins I have to keep peeling off. Rick also has great insights, unfortunately his strengths in typing are not all that great...hence his shorter messages...he HAS more to say, but to type it would take forever. We really need to meet face to face and discuss these chapters a lot more than we do now (never????), instead of relying on the blog. I still think the blog can be helpful, but I don't want it to be a hindrance. I really like reading what others have to say about something I just read in the Bible...it helps me a lot. Reply to this
December 28, 2007 1:49 PM
Rich wrote:
Thanks for the insight. I too think meeting would be a good idea. My schedule is a little less hectic right now so maybe we can find a mutually good time and place to meet. Weekday nights are usually toughest for me. Saturday mornings are best. Lets try again to find a time and see what happens. Reply to this
TO TONY.....COPY THIS ENTIRE BOX INTO MEMORY, THEN PASTE IT INTO NOTEPAD OR OTHER SIMPLE TEXT EDITOR (NOT MS WORD)
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Reply to this
Interesting. We are covered by the blood of Jesus from all past, present and future sin if we confess our sins = see ourselves the way God sees us (through God's eyes). And although we are utterly sinful, sin is always right there with us, our good deeds = filthy rags, whoever does not do the good he should do sins (and others I cannot recall at the moment), God does not want us to sin. He wants us NOT to sin, to avoid sin, to be perfect as God is perfect. I think it is that God is perfect, totally and completely without sin. He absolutely and completely hates sin. Jesus had to die because of sin. Sin is utterly sinful (ugly, wicked, ungodly, unrighteous, sickening) to God. So, if we are to see ourselves through God's eyes to have continuous forgiveness, we will naturally hate sin as God hates sin. We will want to not sin.
This is very different from just waking every morning and saying "I am sorry for my sins, God forgive me." If instead we see ourselves as God sees us and understand the sacrafice that was necessary for our sin (Jesus on cross), we will want to not sin. I think that is what John is saying here. If we are really in touch with God and forgiveness, we will have an incredible desire to not sin. We will not achieve this is this life with our physical bodies, but we can have that mindset.
That is why daily QTs are so important. In spending quality time with God each day, we are able to better understand God and better able to see ourselves through his eyes. We grow closer to him. We are better able to understand his nature, we get glimpses of his mind, we see him and we see what he sees when he looks at us. Also, spending time each day reading about and praying to an entity that we cannot see or touch or directly hear takes great faith. Whenever we spend time reading and praying, we acknowledge that we believe that God is real. We display faith - as I recall, Jesus was amazed with 2 things. Someone's lack of faith and someone's faith. Let's amaze God with our faith that is relected in our daily devotion to God's word.
Concerning I John 2:2, Guzik says "Jesus is our defender, even when we sin now. God is not shocked by human behavior. He has seen it all in advance. He didn’t forgive you at one time to later say, “Look what they did now! If I would have known they would go and do that, I would have never forgiven them.” Knowing that my sin does not shock God makes it easier for me to confess my sin.
I feel compelled to say something today - especially to Tony and Rik. I John 2:9-11 talks about us loving one another. It tells us that there can be nothing between us. That we must work out our differences and that we must have fellowship with one another. None of us is perfect. We are all sinners. We are all the same in the eyes of Jesus. Each of us has our strengths and each of us has our struggles. God wants us to be united and to work together to learn from each other.
(continued below)
Reply to this
The verse that stood out to me the most in this whole chapter was this one: "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did." As a Christian, I claim to live in him. However, to walk as Jesus did???--I fall FAR FAR short of that. As chapter 1 said that we all sin, and to deny that FACT is to be liar. I KNOW that I am sinful. Rich had some great insight into what it means to CONFESS. It is NOT simply, like he said, muttering 'please forgive me for my sin' each morning (noon, or night). No, it is far greater than that. Jesus didn't have to do that...he never sinned. Luck guy! It is extremely difficult to walk as Jesus did...he was able to resist temptation, I am not. Lust, greed, envy and pride still rummage freely in my soul. Yet, I call myself a Christian. Liar! To want not to sin, as Rich says, is important, no doubt; but the strength to do it is even more important. We will not succeed every time we are tempted (as we are basically bad people who do good once in a while---lesson from last Sunday's service in D-ville) like Jesus was able to. So, putting the two together (wanting not to sin, and being unable not to), we have a paradigm of sorts. Hence comes the promise of Jesus...do your best at being like him and you will be rewarded. This sounds like 'works', doesn't it? Well, yes it is, but not works like blogging daily, or sweeping church isles, or 'blessing' foods, or evangelizing (these things are done only if you desire to do them). The works that we must do are those of loving. Jesus is God. God is love. To be like Jesus is to love. To walk as Jesus did is simply to love others. All the rest (resistance to temptation, lessening of deliberate sin, and desires to do 'other works') will come automatically, IF we love one another.
Reply to this
That said, I have noticed a big drop off in contribution to the blog since Mac set out some challenges. I am not here to brag or set myself above anyone else. I have been absent from the blog off and on for weeks at a time. Truth be told, my absences correspond with no QTs. I am sinful, I struggle daily with being consistent, I set goals that get broken, I am like the seed planted in shallow ground all too much. My goal is to be consistent. I am working towards that and the blog has most certainly helped me to be more consistent than I have ever been before, but it is a struggle of massive proportions.
As Mac said, many excuses have been put forward. Some might be valid, but the pure truth is that my absences (my none QT days) are really due to laziness, lack of discipline, mismanagement of time, lack of love (for God and for you), selfishness ... SIN!!!
I want to challenge you (Tony and Rik) to not give up. The blog is our daily meeting place. I would like us to think of the blog as our fulfillment of Hebrews 10:25 (Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching). We all need inspiration and examples in our life. Mac has been an amazing example to me of consistency - something I struggle with. I have not had many (any) great spriritual examples in my life. I need others to show me the way, to challenge me, to make me a better person. I also need you guys to learn from your insights. You both have so much to contribute, to teach, to share. Each of us has unique gifts. We hurt each other by not taking part in the blog on a daily basis. I know that I need you guys and I am asking you to work at contributing so that I can learn and grow.
Also, I want to challenge both of you to talk with Mac if your feelings have been hurt. If you think his words were harsh or misspoken, let him know. If you hold something against me, let me know. We need one another and we need to work with one another not against one another. We need to be helpers to one another, not hindrances.
This is my challenge - it is made in love. If you take it differently, I am sorry that I am not able to express the way I always feel. Reread if necessary knowing that I am trying to say this in love. And, please let me know what you think.
Reply to this
Rich.....Tony is going through some pretty rugged stuff right now with his wife. It was a matter of time before he 'blew up'. It was expected. He holds things in because he doesn't want to offend others. He truly has a great heart for others---his actions (which you don't see often) are indicative of that. He is always helping people with myriads of tasks, asking nothing in return. So, when he 'quit' the other day, it didn't hurt me as much as I originally thought...he was just releasing pent up emotions. I am giving him time to work through them...he doesn't want my help as he doesn't think it will do any good (and it probably wouldn't). But, that's okay. This is the way I am displaying my love for Tony...I am giving him the space he wants. When he is ready, he will return...I don't want to rush him. And, as you say, we all have different strengths...his is not blogging...and that is FINE. I would LIKE him to do it more often, and be more consistent, as I think it helps him...but that is what "I" want...he sees it differently right now as he feels beat up on, because he 'didn't meet my expectations'. It'll be fine...he's a great friend...we won't let a squabble like this come between us. HOWEVER, THAT being said, you had some very good points in your blog about this today. I am learning to be less 'demanding' and less 'harsh' in my loving rebukes.....just a nature of mine having been ingrained in the Military to be a tough leader. One of my onion skins I have to keep peeling off.
Rick also has great insights, unfortunately his strengths in typing are not all that great...hence his shorter messages...he HAS more to say, but to type it would take forever.
We really need to meet face to face and discuss these chapters a lot more than we do now (never????), instead of relying on the blog. I still think the blog can be helpful, but I don't want it to be a hindrance. I really like reading what others have to say about something I just read in the Bible...it helps me a lot.
Reply to this
Thanks for the insight. I too think meeting would be a good idea. My schedule is a little less hectic right now so maybe we can find a mutually good time and place to meet. Weekday nights are usually toughest for me. Saturday mornings are best. Lets try again to find a time and see what happens.
Reply to this